Minnesota Now with Nina Moini

As Trump’s executive orders grow, ‘the reality of them actually happening is more complicated’

Donald Trump
President Donald Trump speaks to reporters aboard Air Force One en route from Miami to Joint Base Andrews, Md., Monday.
Mark Schiefelbein | AP

On Tuesday at 4 p.m., some federal funding and grants provided to the state of Minnesota will be paused due to an executive order from President Donald Trump. Minnesota gets billions of dollars from the federal government, with a large portion of it going toward issues under health and human services, education and transportation, though not all of that funding is at risk.

NPR is reporting that this funding freeze could be as short as a day. State agencies are trying to figure out exactly what this order means.

This announcement from the Trump administration is just one of many that has unclear consequences and leaves a lot of questions on how it will impact Minnesotans.

To help bring some context to the first week of the Trump presidency, Larry Jacobs, a political scientist and professor at the University of Minnesota joined Minnesota Now.

Use the audio player above to listen to the full conversation.

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Audio transcript

NINA MOINI: Our top story this afternoon, today as of 4:00 PM, some federal funding and grants provided to the state of Minnesota will be paused due to an executive order from President Donald Trump. Minnesota gets billions of dollars from the federal government, with a large portion of it going toward issues under Health and Human Services, Education, and Transportation, though not all of the funding is at risk. And NPR, you might have heard at the top of the hour here, is reporting that this funding freeze could be as short as one day. State agencies are trying to figure out what this order means.

Today, the Health Department commissioner, Brooke Cunningham, said they have to wait and see what impacts this will have on Minnesotans.

BROOKE CUNNINGHAM: I think it is important for us to maintain that funding. So we will see what comes out of DC and out of the feds. And certainly if it impacts MDH, part of the point of my presentation is it impacts all Minnesotans, right, because our federal funds we pass through to local public-health departments, to community-based organizations to coordinate a public-health response.

NINA MOINI: Now, this announcement from the Trump administration is one of many that has unclear consequences and leaves a lot of questions on how it will impact Minnesotans. Joining us to help bring some context to the first week of the Trump presidency is Larry Jacobs. He's a political scientist and professor at the University of Minnesota. Thank you for joining us, Larry.

LARRY JACOBS: Good to be with you.

NINA MOINI: Really appreciate your time in breaking all of this down. It's been a week into the Trump administration. People have a lot of questions about this new order from today. What was your reaction when you first heard about this development?

LARRY JACOBS: It's not unexpected. Donald Trump has been talking about some of these sweeping unilateral actions he would take. And I would say also having studied the history and the practice of American politics, these are early days. This is the first initiatives or set of initiatives by Donald Trump. We know from his first term and from previous presidencies that there will be other institutions-- the courts and Congress-- who will weigh in in the coming days. So I think there's going to be tremendous consequence for real people based on what Donald Trump is doing, but I don't think it's the last word by any means.

NINA MOINI: What's your take on when some of these orders or decisions kind of seem to get caught up in the courts? And then we lose sight of what's really going on and who could be impacted. What would you say to Minnesotans who are thinking, how will this actually impact me from a public-policy standpoint?

LARRY JACOBS: Put on your sneakers. Get involved. I think if you look at Donald Trump in his first term, which is instructive, he talked about repealing the Affordable Care Act. It never happened. He talked about building a wall along our southern border. He got 50 miles built, and that's out of over about 2,000 miles. You could go down the list of things that Donald Trump promised.

He came into office saying that he was going to create a revolution, and so these executive orders are part of that rhetorical effort to demonstrate that he is creating dramatic change. What happens in the coming days I think is going to be a different story. And so if you're sitting at home concerned or unhappy with what Donald Trump has done-- or maybe you are happy. This is your opportunity to get involved and engaged and talk to your legislators. Talk to groups that are going to be organizing or going to court to challenge Donald Trump. Don't sit back on the couch and plan on waiting. This is going to require active citizens.

NINA MOINI: What do you think some of the differences are between president Trump's first term and now? Because a lot of people think, well, maybe their lives didn't drastically change under the first four years of the Trump presidency. People have a hard time distinguishing historically what is rhetorical and what's actually going to be acted on. But I was reading some articles this morning that sort of said that in this administration's approach this time, it's sort of a bottom-up approach, like really getting into the nitty-gritty of these different agencies and trying to clean house and starting with federal workers. What is your take on that difference in strategy, if you think there is one?

LARRY JACOBS: Yeah, there's definitely a difference in strategy. I think we can see a whole set of actors, from Elon Musk and those in energy who see this as an opportunity to advance their economic interests. We've got ideological groups that have put together 2025, which is a really strong platform for change. We've got Donald Trump's own personal agenda. There's a lot of stuff that has kind of gone into the mix. And I think there is a bit more sophistication in how they're going to go about making changes.

But the federal government is a large, complicated set of agencies, and any time you try to do sweeping change, it usually bumps up against laws and procedures and unexpected contradictions. So if Donald Trump is going to eliminate 10s of thousands of federal workers, he's then going to turn around and find that he doesn't have the capacity to pursue some of the policies that he might want to pursue or that some of his supporters may come back to him and say, wait a second. You're killing programs that we want.

So I think this is, again, early days. I'd encourage people not to be kind of stunned. I think it's rather time to kind of get educated and think about how you might participate.

NINA MOINI: When do you think we could see some clarity on some of these executive orders and these decisions that do seem unclear? Because it's hard to keep track for people and also to make plans.

LARRY JACOBS: Yeah, unfortunately, that part is going to take time, and so I don't think there's going to be kind of this moment of clarity on a particular date. But here's some part of the process that I think could add some clarity. We are seeing already a number of court challenges. We are seeing courts stepping in and putting a hold on some of what Donald Trump is proposing. I expect that to continue. And there will be other areas where the courts let Donald Trump proceed. I certainly think he will have a big impact. I think that's important to recognize.

We're also going to have action in Congress. The president needs Congress to appropriate funds for his immigration and deportation programs. He's going to need to, along with Republicans in Congress, to raise the debt limit. All those are opportunities for negotiation. And remember, the Republican control in Congress is tenuous. They have a very, very fragile majority in the House of Representatives. They may well need to rely on votes by Democrats. And as soon as they do that, the Democrats are going to be looking for deals, and they're going to negotiate. And I think as part of that process, we could well see things being clarified or rolled back or compromise being struck. So it's going to be part of the process. What

NINA MOINI: Do you think the benefit to people is that Trump is intending with all of these orders? Because he does have a lot of support in people that say, well, he's just following up on what he promised to do, which was eliminate red tape and make things run more efficiently. So there is a support there for these actions. Is he trying to deliver on what he said he would do?

LARRY JACOBS: Well, I think he is trying to speak to what he said he would do, and that's why I'm emphasizing kind of the rhetorical power of what he's doing. He talked about leading a revolution, creating a complete restoration of America, and I think these executive orders and the number and scope of them are his way of demonstrating that.

But I think the reality is going to be more complicated. It's going to be more mixed. He'll have success on some areas. He may have losses. Let's remember, in the first term, the Supreme Court overturned Donald Trump more than any other modern president. And, of course, there's a more conservative Court, but I think he's going to run up against the judiciary here that will push back in some areas. So I see this as a complicated story and one that we're going to need to follow in detail.

NINA MOINI: Yeah, and every day will bring something new, and we'll continue to track it. And we certainly appreciate your time, Larry, and helping to break this down for us.

LARRY JACOBS: Good to be with you.

NINA MOINI: That was Larry Jacobs, professor at the University of Minnesota.

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