General Mills among several companies removing food dyes. What's behind the shift?

NINA MOINI: Minnesota-based General Mills is among three major food producers who say they're going to be pulling artificial dyes from their US products starting in 2027. The shift comes nearly two months after US health officials said they would encourage food producers to phase out these petroleum-based artificial food colorings.

Joining me to break down this shift is Joanne Slavin, a professor in the Department of Food Science and Nutrition at the University of Minnesota. Thanks for being with us today, Professor.

JOANNE SLAVIN: Thanks for inviting me.

NINA MOINI: So some of the names of these food dyes, Professor, we've heard kind of flying around on the red 40, the blue 1, the yellow 5, the titles are a bit strange there. What do those titles mean? And how are these dyes made? Could you explain that for us?

JOANNE SLAVIN: Sure. Food dyes have been around since the '40s, and they have these numbers on them. And they all have to be labeled when they're used in foods. So they're actually pretty easy to get rid of. Or as a consumer, if I don't want them in my foods, I can get rid of them.

But generally what happens is people do like colors, especially during the holidays. So the food dyes have been around for a long time. And just like any dyes, they are going to be chemicals that you have to extract from different things. So I think there really wasn't any new reason that they needed to go, but I think consumers were interested in getting them out of the food supply.

So there was a lot of consumer interest. And FDA has actually said, hey, we can do better. But I think that's the frustrating thing for me is that people all of a sudden think there was some new finding that said, all of these should go. And so it's good that food companies are responding to the consumer and saying we can take those out, but there will be some downside of taking those out and some cost issues with getting-- because even if-- they're chemicals.

So if we actually get them out of-- we could get them from insects, we can get them from trees, we can get them from other plants. But in the end, they are still chemicals that will be petroleum-based or solvent-based to get them into your food. So I think that's the frustrating thing for the consumer is that all of a-- and I really appreciate that food companies and, as you mentioned, every day there's more food companies saying, sure, we can get those out. But there's going to be new formulations and there'll be some costs associated with that.

NINA MOINI: So it's really kind of following the trend in what consumers and the public believe in and demand, which is kind of interesting. But what is it about these artificial dyes that are unsafe or unhealthy? Obviously, they've been in the food a long time. You're saying this was more consumer driven. I guess would we be fine if they stayed? Or what is unsafe or unhealthy about them, I wonder.

JOANNE SLAVIN: Yeah, no, that's a really good question. There wasn't any new news that these have to go. They have been around since the '40s. And the amounts that are-- you can put in foods are very small. So the risk is very small. And the fact that they had to be labeled anyway, they had to be on the label that they were being put in.

So any parent that said, hey, I-- or person that said, I want to avoid these dyes, they could do it by just reading the label. But I think a lot of it is some of the new things of the MAHA things of some of the food additives that are out there. And we get into the same issue with alternative sweeteners.

So all of a sudden we have alternative sweeteners teed up as we need to get them out of the food supply. And they're just one tool to help people remove added sugars, which we want them to do. So I guess that's the frustrating thing for the consumer, for them to say, hey, all of a sudden these are terrible and they needed to go.

They didn't really need to go. They've been in the food supply a long time and they can be avoided. But I think the manufacturers are saying we will listen to the consumer and we will make these changes.

NINA MOINI: Well, they want to be perceived in a certain way. And I just want to-- when you said, MAHA, I just learned about this today. I guess I'm not that healthy, but it's the Make America Healthy Again movement, which people online are saying-- demanding more. And again, they can hear from their consumers, these companies can all the time on social media and online.

They're kind of shifting now, I guess, toward natural food dyes. Can you talk about what's used to make those? Like, do they taste different? Is it more expensive? What's the situation there?

JOANNE SLAVIN: Yeah, no, interesting. The MAHA movement is a lot of times people that have been in the science business for a long time with, like myself, saying, hey, wait a second. All of a sudden, the people that are making the rules don't really enough about the science. So that's, I guess, where I would go with the dyes.

That if you say, hey, these are synthetic dyes, we want to move to natural dyes that come from natural things, that sounds like a game-changer, but actually it creates a lot of problems downstream of cost associated with this supply chain. And really, if you want to get rid of colors, just get rid of colors. It's got to be on the label anyway. So just get rid of them.

So I guess that's this idea that there's a really fast way to get to healthy foods by banning alternate artificial flavors or artificial colors, that's not really going to do it. So that's my frustration as-- because as a scientist, I could get rid of all those colors. But let's say it's the holidays and I want a red cookie.

NINA MOINI: Sure.

JOANNE SLAVIN: It's hard to get those colors with-- from beets or other things. And then how do I get those colors out of them? They're still chemicals. All of these are chemicals. So I don't think consumers are getting-- I don't think they're getting misled, but just this idea that it's natural, that it's totally different and safer for you, it really isn't.

And it's much more costly. So with the concern with some of the government cuts, with food supply and costs of foods, it's probably of all the things I would want to put my money in-- we're going to spend a lot of money and are we going to improve health-- probably not. Because people could have avoided these from the beginning if they didn't want these colors in their foods.

NINA MOINI: You're saying you just can't have that color, then, probably.

JOANNE SLAVIN: Yeah. It's interesting though, that, to me-- I'm a dietician-- that people do like colorful food. And we like to put together plates that have reds and greens and blueberries. And to get those colors, it will be very costly to get those.

But obviously, I always go back as a dietician, eat the real foods, get your colors from real foods that are naturally there, rather than trying to bring in these fake colors. Except for holidays where we have a birthday cake or something, and then we're going to have to allow some colors because that makes life fun.

NINA MOINI: Yeah, moderation is usually good advice, but this was interesting to me that-- I didn't recall this-- but I guess in 2015, so a decade ago, General Mills was shifting away from artificial dyes, but then brought them back due to popular demand, which is maybe what you're seeing is people want what they want. But it's not just General Mills. Kraft, all these other companies.

What do you think-- I mean, I can tell you have some concerns about science versus consumer perception. But what do you think is the future, then, of these food dyes?

JOANNE SLAVIN: You're exactly right if you go back. And this is one thing about aging, in 2015, taking some of these colors out, people didn't like what they were losing, right? The colors are not as bright from some of these things. So consumers are like, we're not going to buy your product because it's not as interesting as it used to be. So then you're sitting saying, well, we're spending all this money and we're not really getting at consumer demand anyway.

So I think that's the frustrating thing is that people do like some colorful food, whether-- and it's also true in drugs and over-the-counter, that this idea that something needs to be pink for me to actually want to consume it. If it's pink lemonade, I need pink. So there's different ways of getting pink.

NINA MOINI: Right So one more question--

JOANNE SLAVIN: It's not as easy as people think.

NINA MOINI: Yeah. One more question for you, Professor. Because there is misinformation out there and tons of social media. If people want to learn about what is in their food and these chemicals, where do you suggest they go to learn and make an informed decision for themselves?

JOANNE SLAVIN: I just think that the labels we have and some of the newer labels that are going to come out, a ton of information is right there on it. And if you talk to your manufacturers, they have a consumer information lines that they will get you that information. They have great scientists that work for them.

So it is really hard because a lot of times for nutrition information, can I go talk to a dietician? Maybe I can answer my health providers, too. So I think the information is there. But so often people do go to the internet. And all of a sudden there's this scare tactic that all these things are poison and you have to avoid them 100%. And the idea of balance and not overconsuming is really important, too.

NINA MOINI: Absolutely. Read the label. Thank you so much, Professor. Really appreciate you coming by and breaking this down for us.

JOANNE SLAVIN: And thanks for covering it. I really appreciate that.

NINA MOINI: Absolutely. That was Joanne Slavin, a food science professor at the University of Minnesota.