After encampment shooting, Minneapolis leader explains city response

[MUSIC PLAYING] NINA MOINI: Minneapolis City attorneys will be in court this afternoon in an attempt to stop property owner Hamoudi Sabri from allowing a homeless encampment on parking lots he owns. Earlier this week, a shooting at the encampment in South Minneapolis on Sabri's property left seven people injured, including three critically. Joining me now to share more about the city of Minneapolis and their homelessness response is Enrique Velasquez, the Director of Regulatory Services. That's the arm of city government that includes the city's homeless response. Thank you for your time this afternoon, Director.

ENRIQUE VELAZQUEZ: Thank you so much for having me. Appreciate the opportunity to be here.

NINA MOINI: Well, thank you. So one thing about this that we want to stress is that this particular encampment was on private property, and it's been this back and forth between the city and this property owner, Mr. Sabri, saying to essentially shut it down because it's not safe. Sabri saying, well, they're just going to-- people are just going to go down the street. Other encampments will pop up. How did it get this far, from your understanding, that the city is taking this property owner to court?

ENRIQUE VELAZQUEZ: Well, I think ultimately we are approaching this from different perspectives, but ultimately, we want the same thing. We do not want to see people struggling that are living out on the street. And this is Mr. Sabri's way of trying to remedy that situation in more of the immediacy, by opening up his property to allow people to be there. The city position is, OK, you did this thing and there need to be additional services, additional wraparounds, because we have seen encampments over the course of time. We've seen them. They start small, they look fine. There's no conflict.

But then as more people get added to the site, then as more activity happens, as people start to get exploited, and then over the course of time, those individuals at encampments become victims of harm. They become victims of violence themselves and worsening their situation that led to homelessness to begin with. So that's part of the crux of the issue of why the city is so adamant that this encampment needs to shut down.

NINA MOINI: And--

ENRIQUE VELAZQUEZ: And we were hoping to avoid this regrettable situation that happened with seven people being injured and so many others that were indirectly impacted just by the nature of what happened.

NINA MOINI: And just want to read a part of a statement from Sabri who said, I did not create this crisis. I responded to it by opening my property to people with nowhere else to go, and by inviting the city to collaborate on real solutions. That invitation still stands. I understand this encampment now is being cleared. What's the latest on this specific site?

ENRIQUE VELAZQUEZ: Well, the latest on this site is it remains closed. There is a police crime tape that's surrounding it. The police are holding that specific space just to make sure that people do not reoccupy it at the moment. And in addition to that, we have the homeless response team that is out in full force in a nearby property, engaging with people that left that specific site. So there's about 35 to 40 people in total. They're working with each of these individuals to try and convince them that they should consider going into shelter and engage in the available services so that they don't have to live the way that they're living right now.

NINA MOINI: But unclear still where they'll go or whether or not they'll accept. I want to try to give our listeners an idea for how big of a situation this is. According to Hennepin County data, it's from January, but it says that more than 400 people are experiencing unsheltered homelessness, and the vast majority reside in Minneapolis. What is your idea for the number of people who are experiencing this chronic homelessness and would be at encampments, in encampment-like situations? How big is that number?

ENRIQUE VELAZQUEZ: We anticipate that that number is somewhere between 170 to 200. It remains very fluid, but our homeless response team, they're out there. They're trying to engage with people in all sorts of situations, whether they're in encampments, in vehicles, living in doorways or back alleys, or a variety of other environments that they find themselves in that are unfit for human habitation.

NINA MOINI: So we'll say a 170 to 200 people, unclear where exactly those people are. And Director Velasquez, in April, we had Minneapolis Police Chief Brian O'Hara on the show. And at the time, he said that there was a new policy allowing police to shut down encampments, essentially before they really begin to grow. At the time, he said there were no significant homeless encampments in the city as a result of that policy. Obviously, this was April. We had the whole summer. What is your understanding of how that policy is going?

ENRIQUE VELAZQUEZ: I would say that policy was very successful. Police officers are empowered to engage. They're working with individuals to try and convince them not to live in encampments, not to be out on the streets or in any of these other environments. And the homeless response team has come alongside them as well. Other services have also come alongside them to try and help each one of these individuals activate their agency to move into a better situation.

So while we aren't seeing the same size of encampments or nearly as many encampments as we have in the past, we see people shifting into other spaces or not necessarily setting up tents even. They're gathering and then they go find somewhere else to sleep that's not an encampment, recognizing that encampments by themselves are inherently not safe.

NINA MOINI: So when you say successful, do you mean that there aren't visibly as many encampments around the city? Because it would be hard to where all of those people went, because people who have criticized this approach say, well, that's why people are moving on to, say, a private property like Mr. Sabri. So how do you ensure that if police are able to shut these down, and you say that other people are going other places, it seems pretty unclear where they're going. Is there enough shelter for all those people?

ENRIQUE VELAZQUEZ: I will say that there is enough shelter for everybody that wants to go to shelter. Now, if every unsheltered individual decided, today's the day and I'm ready to go to shelter, we probably would not have enough space for every single person. But for every person that chooses to go to shelter, which is a smaller percentage of those that are living unsheltered right now, there is room for every single one of those individuals, and we're working with them right now to make sure that they get the services, they get the support, they get the help that they need.

Now, for the previous question of the success of this approach of shutting down encampments and dispersing people where it's not clear where they're located, we are able to find them. People are-- while it's a transient kind of group of individuals, they do not stray terribly far from their culture, from their communities, from the things that they know. So we're able to find them relatively easily as we go out on every single day. People are out. My homeless response team is out, and they're engaging with individuals and can find them pretty readily.

And we share that information out with other service providers too, so that they know, hey, this person that you're looking for, this is where they're located. So you have shelter, you have services, you have housing for them. This is where you can find them.

NINA MOINI: Is there a way that you could explain, maybe in a sentence or a couple, what the city of Minneapolis, understanding that you work closely with Hennepin County and other partners as well, but at the city level, what is the policy around encampments on when to shut them down or when to allow them to form?

ENRIQUE VELAZQUEZ: So at its core, the city of Minneapolis does not allow encampments at all anywhere in the city. And every single encampment, when it forms, will get targeted for closure. And we recognize that there are various different reasons why certain ones are allowed to exist for a little bit longer than others. Some of that is timing with shelter. Some of it is location or proximity to vulnerable populations. Those are some of the different factors we try to keep in mind when closing encampments.

NINA MOINI: Who decides when to go ahead and clear an encampment?

ENRIQUE VELAZQUEZ: Aside from the police chief's special order, there's a separate team across functional, cross-departmental team within the city that evaluates all these different criteria, all the different encampments. And collectively, we decide which ones to prioritize and when we have resources and staffing to be able to move forward with closure.

NINA MOINI: So as that stands, everything we just talked about, are there any other policies at the city level, or even at the state level, that you could see being helpful, or do you feel like this policy is complete? Because it doesn't seem to be working in every situation.

ENRIQUE VELAZQUEZ: Well, in addition to the special order and the city policy on no encampments, Hennepin County does have a shelter-first policy specifically for families. So that by itself is also helpful. So we will not see children at encampments. And anytime we do, we are engaged with the county to make sure that those families and those individuals do move out of encampments and move into shelter or housing so that they can stabilize.

I will say we could always use additional support for substance use disorder. At its core, that's what we're seeing over and over again. It's substance use disorders and mental health disorders. So providing some additional supports in wraparound for these acute issues will help make a difference, not just in Minneapolis, but across all of Hennepin County and around the state.

NINA MOINI: Director Velasquez, thank you very much for your time this afternoon. I appreciate it.

ENRIQUE VELAZQUEZ: Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to be here.

NINA MOINI: That was Enrique Velasquez, the Director of Regulatory Services for the city of Minneapolis.