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In 2020, Joe Biden won Michigan by just over 154,000 votes, and the presidential race for 2024 is expected to be just as tight. 

The state's Black voters helped Biden clinch the presidential election four years ago, but he has much work to do to keep their support this time.

Rev. Kenneth Flowers is one of President Biden's most ardent supporters. He has led services at Greater New Mount Baptist Church in Detroit for 29 years. 

"Everybody is looking now saying, if the election was held today, Biden would lose Michigan," Flowers said in an interview with NPR host Leila Fadel for 

. "The good news is, the election is not being held today. You've still got eight months in a political cycle. Eight months is a long time."

Flowers said he would like to see Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris show up more in Michigan and "give people hope and help them develop faith again in the democratic party, develop faith again in this two party system, develop faith again in America."

Flowers credits Biden for the success of the infrastructure bill and record low unemployment among Black Americans. But he says that his congregation still has a lot of concerns.  

NPR's Leila Fadel sat down with Rev. Flowers on a recent Sunday morning, after he delivered a sermon about the power of faith. 

This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.

: I want to start with something you said in 2020.  You said that it's unquestioned that black voters carried Biden to victory, especially here in Michigan. And I want to understand from you, as we embark on this again and people go to elect the president,  do you think he has the same pull that he had in 2020, here in Michigan with Black voters?

: He does not have the same pull.  Many of the black people who I've talked to have stated that they definitely are not voting for Trump. But many have said, maybe I ought to sit this one out. Biden is not doing as much. And so I've had to explain to them and show them that this election, if you sit it out, if you do not vote, you are giving a vote to Donald Trump. President Biden needs every Black vote he can get. And at the same time, he nor Vice President Harris, nor the administration should take our vote for granted. They have to earn it. 

 What are some of the things that he needs to do, to say to black Americans you matter in this country? 

I've talked to some young people. They are very upset. Because they don't feel that President Biden is doing enough to get humanitarian aid to the Palestinians in Gaza. So you have on the one hand, African American young people who are saying, what about us in terms of black lives matter? What about unemployment? What about issues that affect us, student loan debt? Can we get jobs, housing, things of that nature. 

But at the same time, you have some of those same African-Americans also saying, while we can support Israel in some aspects, you're not doing enough to stop the killing of the innocent Palestinians. 

And I'm pro-Israel. The Jewish people historically have been there for African-Americans in terms of the founding of our institutions and supporting us in terms of freedom and justice. But I can speak out against the Israeli government and still be supportive of my Jewish brothers and sisters. 

I do not think that what Prime Minister Netanyahu is doing is right as it relates to the Palestinian people. Hamas needs to be stopped. I get that. You have to do that. Israel has the right to exist. Israel has the right to defend herself. But the Palestinians are people also — they're people as well. 

What issues are most important to your congregation and people in your community?

: The older people, they want to make sure that democracy continues.  When I've talked to older people, they want to be able to pay for their prescriptions. They want to be able to pay their bills. They want to be able to make sure they have money for food and not have to decide between a prescription or do I eat. Young folks say our economy, also, but we want jobs and we want to be safe. A lot of young people who I've talked to are like 'Man, I just want to live to see 25,' which blew me away. I'm like, 'That's your goal? To live to be 25?'

 The dangers, not just of police but there's been gang violence in different areas. People die. And a lot of people don't have a lot of hope. They're like, these jobs are not paying any money. Some-way, somehow, the Biden administration not only produced jobs and we just got the last report, they produced over 350 thousand jobs. The question then becomes, are these good paying jobs?  

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Michigan faith leader Rev. Kenneth Flowers says President Biden should not take the Black vote for granted. 

A Biden victory in Michigan could depend on Black Voters

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