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Shocking fact: The average American home has more than 300,000 items in it. And that was 

 the pandemic, when many of us used Amazon as

While Joshua Fields Millburn and Ryan Nicodemus certainly understand the impulse, they encourage a different path. When they were kids growing up in poverty in Ohio, they equated stuff with success. But as they got older and were able to acquire more, they discovered that material goods didn’t grow their happiness.

 was born. Both Millburn and Nicodemus embarked on a journey to get rid of clutter. To their surprise, they found that decluttering their space led to a decluttering of their minds — and that gave them the mental and emotional space to reorder their relationships.

Since that time, they’ve launched a website, a podcast, two Netflix documentaries (

”) and now a book that details their passion for finding more in less.

In July of 2021, they talked with host Kerri Miller about their written blueprint, “

.” Use it to whet your appetite for this Friday’s show with novelist 

, whose book also touches on lessons gleaned from poverty amidst abundance.

To listen to the full conversation you can use the audio player above.

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On this Friday’s Big Books and Bold Ideas, Kerri Miller talks with novelist Jakob Guanzon, whose book “Abundance” tells the story of a young man, raising a child alone, on the razor’s edge of poverty. It reminded us of the insightful conversation we had last July with The Minimalists about how freeing up space in your home also frees up space in your life.

From the archives: 'Love People, Use Things'

A book cover next to two people standing next to a wall

From the archives: 'Love People, Use Things'

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