Minnesota Now for Nov. 16, 2022

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CATHY WURZER: It's Minnesota Now. I'm Cathy Wurzer. The Sanford and Fairview health systems are planning to merge. We'll talk about why that plan didn't pan out the first time it was proposed and what it could mean for patient care this time around. And a new documentary tells the story of three Indigenous women working to honor their missing and murdered relatives.

How about all the snow these past few days? Almost two feet around Silver Bay. Paul Huttner is back to give us a look at our extended forecast and whether snow is in the mix this weekend. Ellen Stanley of the iconic Womenfolk radio show is here. She's featured Minnesota folk, bluegrass, and roots artists for 20 years on KFAI and on stations nationwide. Now, she's celebrating the past two decades of music with an event this weekend. All of that and a whole lot more right after the news.

LAKSHMI SINGH: Live from MPR News in Washington, I'm Lakshmi Singh. Electricity's back in several Ukrainian cities, including the capital, less than 24 hours after Russia launched one of the heaviest missile strikes on Ukraine's energy infrastructure since the Russian invasion nearly nine months ago. US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin is pledging continued support from Washington in the coming months.

LLOYD AUSTIN: We're going to maintain our momentum throughout the winter so that Ukraine can continue to consolidate gains and seize the initiative on the battlefield.

LAKSHMI SINGH: Rolling power outages are underway in Lviv, which is roughly 70 miles from the site across the border in Poland, where a missile killed two people yesterday. Poland and other NATO countries say the projectile was probably a stray fired by Ukraine's air defense that was fending off the Russian military onslaught.

The pandemic border restrictions known as Title 42 will continue for at least another month. MPR's Joel Rose reports a federal judge has agreed to the Biden administration's request to delay a ruling that found the policy unlawful.

JOEL ROSE: The Department of Justice asked for five weeks to prepare for an orderly transition away from Title 42, and Federal Judge Emmet Sullivan agreed with, quote, "great reluctance." In his opinion, Judge Sullivan said the policy was arbitrary and capricious and ordered the Biden administration to end it. Immigrant advocates did not oppose the government's request for a temporary stay.

The restrictions, first put in place by the Trump administration, have allowed immigration authorities to quickly expel migrants more than 2 million times without giving them a chance to seek asylum. If it stands, the ruling could have major implications for border enforcement at a time when migrant apprehensions at the southern border are already high. Joel Rose, MPR News.

LAKSHMI SINGH: A major climate science report is now available in six languages. MPR'S Rebecca Hersher reports the publication arrives as climate negotiators meeting in Egypt head into their final days of talks.

REBECCA HERSHER: With just a few days to go in global climate negotiations, there's little agreement. Wealthy countries haven't agreed to come up with a way to pay for the damage caused by climate change in poorer countries. Global emissions are still rising.

The newly translated scientific report makes the basic facts of climate change available in Spanish, Arabic, French, Russian, and Chinese, in addition to English, facts such as global greenhouse gas emissions, must be cut in half by the end of the decade to avoid catastrophic warming later this century. Negotiators have yet to agree on language that welcomes that science, let alone meets that emissions goal. Rebecca Hersher, MPR News.

LAKSHMI SINGH: On Wall Street, US stocks are mixed. The NASDAQ composite index is down more than 1%, 127 points at 11,231. The S&P is down 21 points, roughly half a percent. The Dow is up a fraction. This is MPR News.

ANNOUNCER: Support for MPR comes from MPR stations. Other contributors include Fisher Investments. As a fiduciary, Fisher Investments is obligated to act in their client's best interest. Learn more at fisherinvestments.com. Investments in securities involve the risk of loss.

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CATHY WURZER: Around Minnesota right now, it's cloudy. It's still snowing in many places. Highs today, low 20s to low 30s. At noon in Bemidji, there are some flurries and 21 degrees. It's cloudy and 30 in Winona. And outside the Junkyard Brewing Company in Moorhead, it's cloudy and 12. I'm Cathy Wurzer with Minnesota news headlines.

Longtime Saint Paul police officer and commander, Axel Henry, is likely to win formal approval this afternoon to be the city's 48th police chief. Tim Nelson has the story.

TIM NELSON: Mayor Melvin Carter nominated Henry to lead the 800-person department, which includes about 550 sworn officers, comparable in size to the Minnesota State Patrol. Previous Chief Todd Axtell announced last year he would not seek a second six-year term, and Interim Chief Jeremy Ellison has been leading the agency since June. Henry has been with the department for more than 20 years and has led key parts of the agency, including the Eastern District and the narcotics unit. He instituted one of the biggest technological changes in department history, rolling out St. Paul's body camera program.

Henry's appointment is subject to approval by the city council, which is scheduled to vote on it this afternoon. A majority of council members have already signaled they'll support his nomination, and he's likely to be sworn in shortly after their vote. I'm Tim Nelson.

CATHY WURZER: Target reports another big drop in profits in its latest earnings report today. The Minneapolis-based company leaders blame inflation and other economic headwinds that are keeping customers from spending a lot. Target says its net profit was down 52% compared to 2021, as shoppers dramatically shifted to sale items and other lower margin merchandise. But CEO Brian Cornell also says shoplifting has become a significant drag on the Minneapolis-based retailer's bottom line.

BRIAN CORNELL: Like the rest of the industry, we're facing a growing financial headwind from shortage, which is running hundreds of millions of dollars higher than a year ago. Along with other retailers, we've seen a significant increase in theft and organized retail crime across our business. As a result, we're making significant investments in training and technology that can deter theft and keep our guests and store team members safe.

CATHY WURZER: Company officials say reported thefts have grown to nearly 50% since 2021, and cost Target more than $400 million this year.

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Our top story of the day is actually a story you first heard here yesterday at this time. It's the proposed merger between two large health care providers in our region that, if approved, would make for an even larger health care company. Sanford Health, based in Sioux Falls, and Fairview Health Systems in Minneapolis want to join forces. But this is not the first time these two companies have talked about a marriage.

Cara Hetland is the director of radio and journalism content for South Dakota Public Broadcasting. She's been following this story. Cara, it's so good to talk with you. How are you?

PAUL HUTTNER: I am well, thank you. It's so nice to talk with you too, Cathy.

CATHY WURZER: And for folks who remember the name, Cara, of course, used to work here at MPR News.

CARA HETLAND: A long time ago, yes.

CATHY WURZER: Long time ago, yeah. So Sanford Health is a major employer in South Dakota, so this is a big story, obviously. Get us up to speed. What's being proposed here?

CARA HETLAND: Well, it is a really big story. Sanford Health is the largest employer in the state of South Dakota. And so 45,000 employees in its system across the country, 2,800 physicians are associated with Sanford. And so two years ago, we had a change in leadership at Sanford, and Bill Gassen came in. And he's kind of set some new priorities. And number one is to focus on rural health care.

And that is what this is by merging with Fairview. So Sanford brings in the rural, the smaller clinics, the telehealth, and Fairview has the urban, the association with the University of Minnesota, and together, then, they can grow and expand even further across the region.

CATHY WURZER: How's Sanford's bottom line? Have they been struggling or have been-- are they OK?

CARA HETLAND: Uh, what can you really know about a hospital system's bottom line? I think all hospital systems are struggling. Sanford really took-- went out and lobbied and took a side during the election for Medicaid expansion in South Dakota, wanting that, wanting more options for billing purposes. Sanford merged with Good Samaritan Society and now has 200 elder care facilities in its system as well.

And so I know they're making these moves as a way to increase care at all ages, right? But do we really know?

CATHY WURZER: Well--

CARA HETLAND: We don't.

CATHY WURZER: --they're looking, obviously, for a partner because weren't they dancing with Intermountain Health there for a while?

CARA HETLAND: They were dancing with Intermountain. They were dancing with UnityPoint Health out in-- based in Des Moines, Iowa. And both of those fell through with the change in leadership. So I don't know if it was, I'm about to retire, and I want to hand off this system that I built, attitude for those mergers. But then the new leader came in and said, you know what? Let's focus on what we do well, and that's rural care, smaller clinics, and start expanding our footprint.

Back in 2007, when Sanford became Sanford and received billions of dollars from T Denny Sanford and changed its name from Sioux Valley to Sanford, they had a lot of money, and they made a lot of bold moves, and they opened clinics worldwide. And now they're kind of scaling back and coming back home.

CATHY WURZER: So the Minnesota Nurses Association has released a statement saying they're opposing this merger. And I'm wondering-- I don't know how Sanford feels about a unionized workforce. Might that be a hurdle?

CARA HETLAND: It might be a hurdle. We don't have a lot of unions in South Dakota, so it might be a hurdle. It might be-- how they left it in their statements yesterday with the press was really, you know what? We've agreed. Our boards agreed.

And now a whole lot of other people can have an influence on whether this happens or not. And this could be one of those influences. Will the workers be treated fairly and equitably across this new combined system, or-- do the med schools want to join forces across this combined system? And, you know, what about patient care?

So there's a whole lot that still need to be debated. And I think in 2013, when this fell through with Fairview, Sanford wasn't being very open and honest. And I would think that they will answer more questions now.

CATHY WURZER: So before you go, Cara, do South Dakota regulators have to sign off on this?

CARA HETLAND: I think South Dakota and Minnesota regulators have to sign off on this, yes.

CATHY WURZER: OK. We'll continue that conversation. Again, it was great talking to you. Thank you so much.

CARA HETLAND: You are very welcome. Have a great day.

CATHY WURZER: You, too. Cara Hetland-- South Dakota Public Broadcasting is where she works. Now, she mentioned this, and I mentioned this earlier in the program-- this is not the first time Sanford and the M Health Fairview systems have tried to merge. Cara mentioned it was nearly a decade ago, 2013, the merger plan was scuttled by state regulators.

Lori Swanson was the Minnesota Attorney General back then, and she's on the line with us right now. Another voice from the past, Attorney General Swanson, thank you so much for joining us. How are you?

LORI SWANSON: I'm fine, Cathy. Thank you for having me.

CATHY WURZER: Thanks for joining us. So it's going to be a little history lesson for many people here. Sanford and Fairview wanted to merge, as I mentioned, in 2013. You were AG. What do you recall about the business atmosphere? What was it like back then to have sparked negotiations between these two companies?

LORI SWANSON: Yeah, I think a couple of things were going on in the health care system. Unfortunately, people are looking at merging up and getting bigger. Back in 2013, we got involved conducting an investigation because one of the responsibilities of the attorney general is to oversee whether charitable assets are properly administered. And there were two issues afoot in 2013 that led to public hearings and an investigation by our office.

One was the control of the University of Minnesota Hospital by Fairview and, essentially, what would mean exporting control of the University Hospital to an out-of-state organization, namely Sanford. And then second was Fairview's control of over a billion dollars at that time-- it's much larger now-- in charitable assets that existed and grew up because of the support of Minnesota taxpayers, both of which I think are present today as well.

CATHY WURZER: Attorney General Keith Ellison has also launched an investigation, much as your office did back then. Do you recall-- lawmakers entered the fray on this. A number of lawmakers introduced legislation to block the move. Do you remember what that was all about?

LORI SWANSON: Yeah, absolutely. So in 1997, the University of Minnesota Hospital was sold to Fairview, and there was over a year of public discussion before that sale transpired. But essentially, you had, then, public assets being held and owned by a charitable institution. The University of Minnesota Medical Center trained 70% of doctors in Minnesota, and it's a landmark institution for our state and a point of pride for Minnesota.

University of Minnesota Hospital had the first successful open heart surgery in the world, the first bone marrow transplant, the first pancreas transplant. It has spawned innovations in medical technology like the first heart lung machine to keep patients alive during heart surgery. It invented the first portable cardiac pacemaker. And innovations like those gave rise to our medical device industry in Minnesota, which employed at that time over 30,000 Minnesotans at over 400 companies.

And so one concern related to the impact on taking a public University of Minnesota Hospital controlled by Fairview, a charitable organization, and having it put under the control of an out-of-state organization, you know, what would be the impact on the medical school? What would be the impact on patients and the status of the medical school as an academic medical center? And also, what would be the impact on the University of Minnesota Medical School as an incubator for economic development in Minnesota?

So I think legislators at the time were concerned about those impacts, and then also concerned about Fairview's assets. You know, Fairview itself is a 100-year-old charitable institution, and charitable organizations receive exemptions from property taxes and sales taxes and income taxes. They get to raise money by issuing tax-exempt bonds. And so, really, Fairview existed then, and now, because of 100 years of support from Minnesotans through these tax exemptions, through donations, gifts of land, for example, Fairview Southdale Hospital today sits on land that was donated.

And so one-- another concern then, and I suspect now, is the impact of a transaction like this on what, in 2013, was over a billion dollars in net assets. Today, it's over $2.8 billion in net assets. And what will that mean if these assets are controlled or under the control of an out-of-state organization, given that it was Minnesotans who allowed them to exist and grow over those many years?

CATHY WURZER: Current University Vice president. Myron Frans, who has, of course, a lot of experience in state government, was wondering out loud about Fairview's finances. You know, how healthy is Fairview? Did that play a role in the discussions back in 2013? Because I recall others were proposing that the university take over Fairview instead of having Sanford take over Fairview.

LORI SWANSON: Yeah, there was a concern there. You know, finances didn't play as much of a role in 2013, but back when the transaction was announced then, the University of Minnesota actually came forward with its own proposal to take over Fairview and have the transaction go that way, where the university would essentially own Fairview rather than having it outsourced to Sanford.

So finances were not as much of an issue then. And I think, regardless of the net income today, you still have the issue of just these tremendous amount of assets that Fairview is holding, over $2.8 billion in net assets, in 2020, anyway, and what that means in a combination in terms of having those assets devoted to Minnesota.

The courts have held that there are limitations on a charitable institution's ability to allow charitable assets that were developed to benefit a particular state or community from being dissipated from that community or put under governance or control of an out-of-state organization. And that was certainly a big focus and a big issue we had 10 years ago.

CATHY WURZER: So given all you've said and all you've outlined between then and now, it sounds like this proposed marriage will not have easy sledding. Would that be right?

LORI SWANSON: Yeah, I think that should be true. I think that it's really important that there be visibility and public transparency into the huge impact of a transaction like this on Minnesotans. As I mentioned, back when Fairview was looking at acquiring the University Hospital, there was over a whole year of public discussion and debate. In 2013, we had very visible public hearings, where Fairview and Sanford and the university presented, but also, patients and others got to present in terms of the impact.

I mean, you think about Fairview just alone, the size of it today-- you know, 34,000 employees, 10 hospitals, very, very significant footprint in health care in Minnesota. And then when you overlay that, on top of that, the status as a charitable organization as well as its ownership of the University of Minnesota Hospital, I think it's going to be important for regulators and policymakers and the public to really shine a spotlight on it to know how it will impact patients, how it will impact the academic medical center, how it would it impact our economy and Minnesota as a whole.

CATHY WURZER: Great background. Thank you so much. I really appreciate hearing from you. Take care.

LORI SWANSON: Thank you very much.

CATHY WURZER: Lori Swanson is a practicing attorney. She is a former Minnesota Attorney General.

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Well, this is the most unique song you're going to hear today. It's our Minnesota Music Minute. This is Joe Rainey with "No Chants" off of his newest album, Niineta, spelled N-I-I-N-E-T-A. Pow wow, experimental, punk, electronica-- they're all on this album. Joe grew up in Minneapolis. He's a member of the Red Lake Nation of Ojibwe People.

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CATHY WURZER: 12:20 here on Minnesota Now from MPR News. Native women have been beating the drum literally to draw attention to the shocking number of Native women who go missing or are murdered every year. Native women make up less than 1% of the US population, yet face murder rates that are more than 10 times the national average. That's the stark statistic behind an award-winning documentary film that's being streamed on the PBS app this month.

The filmmaker is Leya Hale. She's a member of the Sisseton Wahpeton, Dakota, and Dene Nations. She's a producer at Twin Cities Public Television and an Indigenous storyteller whose film, Bring Her Home, examines the missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls crisis through the stories of three women-- an artist, an activist, and a politician. Leya Hale, welcome to Minnesota Now. How are you?

LEYA HALE: Hello, Cathy. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

CATHY WURZER: I am so glad you're here. Would you like to introduce yourself however you'd like?

LEYA HALE: Sure. [SPEAKING DAKOTA]

And in my Dakota language, I just said, "Hello, I greet you all with a warm handshake."

CATHY WURZER: And thank you. I appreciate hearing that. What is the story behind the creation of Bring Her Home? It's such a powerful film.

LEYA HALE: Yes, I believe I started development on the film about three years ago. I had an opportunity to look around in the community at the time and was really paying attention to the rising movement of the MMIW movement itself. And, you know, I had an opportunity to highlight this epidemic through media. So I did my best to gather the funding. Bring Her Home is funded by Vision Maker Media.

And, you know, I really did my best to try and highlight voices of the community, really powerful women within our community to just do what I can to give them help to raise this awareness and the grassroots organizing that's been happening in and around our community here in the Twin Cities.

CATHY WURZER: That opening scene for me was really powerful. It starts with the sound of a cigarette lighter, and then a shot of one of the women, Angela Two Stars, burning sage. Why did you choose that shot to open up the doc?

LEYA HALE: I felt that it was important to really focus on the healing aspect when it comes to dealing with such a sensitive topic. So I did my best to incorporate a lot of our traditional medicines, like cansasa, tobacco, sage, cedar, sweetgrass, to do my best to make sure that the women that were telling these stories, that they felt protected, and they felt the importance of their story and their voice and what that would carry and how that would impact other women in our community.

So there was so much of this medicine, traditional medicines that was interwoven into the production of the making of this film that, in a way, it started becoming a reoccurring visual [AUDIO OUT] that was seen throughout the film. So that's kind of why I chose to use that opening shot to really remind us what the story is going to be about and to ultimately bring that hope and that resiliency to our people.

CATHY WURZER: I mentioned Angela, Angela Two Stars. She's an artist, one of the subjects, and I believe she had a grandma who went missing. Is that right?

LEYA HALE: Yes. This took place back on our reservation, the Sisseton Wahpeton reservation, which is on the Lake Traverse reservation in Northeast South Dakota. And I really related and connected to Angela Two Stars' story, being from the same reservation. I did not grow up there myself. I grew up in the urban area of Los Angeles's American Indian community. But, you know, I really wanted to focus on somebody that I could relate to, which is why I chose Angela Two Stars.

And I connected to her personal story of her grandmother going missing and murdered when she was nine years old. And one story that she shared with me was her experience of her and her family casual-- not casually, but searching for their grandmother. They would be driving on their reservation, and there would be times where she said as a young girl, her father would just stop on the side of the road and get out and start searching in the woods.

And just the feeling that comes with that, knowing that it's our family members that have to do that job of searching for lost ones. And that really-- that story alone is what she told when she was a curator for the very first art exhibition that was produced by All My Relations Gallery. And that was the very first Bring Her Home art exhibition. And she told that story to the people, the other artists that were creating content at the time.

And I heard that story, and I really connected with it because I really wanted people to understand that these stories don't just happen to young individuals. They can happen to any of us, even in our elderly age. So I really wanted to highlight that to make it a point that this is something that we all have to be aware of no matter what age we are.

CATHY WURZER: I'm glad you brought up that you grew up in LA. I remember you telling me about that, and I know you wanted to be a filmmaker, you know. How-- and, of course, in LA, you took classes. Didn't you go to Cal State Fullerton? I believe you said that you did. Right?

LEYA HALE: Yes, I did.

CATHY WURZER: OK.

LEYA HALE: That's where I received my undergraduate degree in communications.

CATHY WURZER: That's right. That's right. And you got your master's at the University of South Dakota. Why did you want to be a filmmaker?

LEYA HALE: I felt like I had an early exposure to it. My mom, my mother was an aspiring Native actress in the LA area. And growing up, I remember going to auditions and just being, in a way, seeing how non-Native, you know, producers and directors wanted us to try out for different scenes, or whether it be like-- I guess you could say like background characters or-- whatever it was, I always noticed the scene or the setup was always depicted from, like, pre-1800s. And, you know, it was always Western-themed.

And just that experience of being on a set when I was younger and seeing just everything that goes behind the scenes, when it comes to production, really blew my mind. So I definitely-- I guess you can say was really inspired from just those earlier memories of going to auditions and trying not to be a Native person.

CATHY WURZER: And you have done-- you are an amazing filmmaker. I mean, my gosh. And I know you have another film coming up with Pioneer Public Television that's airing I think next week on TPT, if I'm not mistaken. That sounds fantastic too. In about 20 seconds, what's that all about?

LEYA HALE: So basically, the film is a short documentary, and it's about art history and evolution of Dakota women's dress. The film is called Saksanica, and that means-- refers to our traditional dress. So it's fascinating history to learn about it, just the knowledge that we kept in regards to-- that is embedded with our traditional attire.

CATHY WURZER: Leya, I wish I had more time. Thank you so much for joining us, and best of luck, OK?

PAUL HUTTNER: Yes. Thank you so much.

CATHY WURZER: We've been talking to Leya Hale. She is an Indigenous filmmaker, producer at Twin Cities Public Television. Her documentary, Bring Her Home, is streaming on the PBS app, or you can go to tpt.org to find a broadcast in your area.

ANNOUNCER: Support comes from Eden Prairie Nissan. Eden Prairie Nissan now has a large selection of vehicles available for immediate delivery, including the all new 2022 Rogue and Pathfinder. Learn more at edenprairienissan.com. Programming is supported by Nichols Kaster, dedicated to protecting the rights of workers and discrimination, retaliation, and compensation matters. Nichols Kaster, since 1974, because your voice matters.

Learn more about Nichols Kaster's national practice and courtroom experience at nka.com.

CATHY WURZER: It's 12:30, Time for news with John Wanamaker. John.

JOHN WANAMAKER: Cathy, NATO's chief and the president of Poland say there are no indications that a missile that fell on Polish farmland, killing two people, was a deliberate attack. They said that Ukraine likely launched the Soviet era projectile during Russian air assaults. Tuesday's incident came as Russia launched missiles and exploding drones against Ukraine's power grid.

President Biden also said it was, quote, unlikely that Russia fired the missiles, citing US intelligence. Ukraine's president said he did not believe the missile was Ukrainian and asked for more evidence.

NASA's new moon rocket blasted off on its debut flight with three test dummies aboard. Today's Florida launch brings the US a big step closer to putting astronauts back on the lunar surface for the first time since the end of the Apollo program 50 years ago. If all goes well with the three-week flight, the crew capsule will be propelled into a wide orbit around the moon before returning to Earth in December. NASA hopes to send four astronauts around the moon on the next flights in 2024, and then land humans there as early as 2025.

Authorities say 22 Los Angeles County Sheriff's recruits on a training run were hit by a vehicle traveling on the wrong side of the road around dawn in suburban Whittier. Five recruits were critically injured, four had moderate injuries, and another 14 suffered minor injuries. The driver, identified only as a 22-year-old man, also had minor injuries. Authorities say he is cooperating.

Americans are bracing for a costly Thanksgiving this year with double digit percent increases in the price of turkey and other holiday staples. Higher production costs only part of the reason-- disease, rough weather, and the war in Ukraine are also contributors. Turkey supplies are at their lowest point since 1986, after a deadly avian flu wiped out flocks. Prices up about 28%, but experts say there won't be shortages of whole birds because producers shifted production to meet Thanksgiving demand.

On Wall Street, stocks are mixed right now, the Dow up slightly, the NASDAQ-- or the S&P off about 1/2 of 1%, the NASDAQ down 1%. This is MPR News.

CATHY WURZER: Thank you, John. Let's talk about mother nature for just a few minutes here. Mother nature-- she's always full of surprises. Here in Minnesota, we've gone from above average temperatures to below average temperatures with a lot of snow, lots of snow-- almost two feet on the North Shore. Wow. What's in store next? Let's ask MPR's chief meteorologist, Paul Huttner. Hey, welcome back.

PAUL HUTTNER: Hey, good to be here, Cathy. Can you believe it was almost 70 degrees a week ago?

CATHY WURZER: No, I forgot. It just-- it was great, but now it's gone. What is the deal with the snow machine on Lake Superior? Did I see that right? Silver Bay almost has two feet?

PAUL HUTTNER: You did. I feel like we're living in a snow globe this week across Minnesota. Every time somebody shakes it, the snow picks up again. Here's the deal. They've had some prolific lake effect, what we call a fire hose lake effect, where these strands of lake effect snow kind of narrow, head into the shore, and with the subtle shifts in the wind, they move a little left, a little right, kind of like how a fire hose would spray. You'd see it. And it's produced some prolific lake effect snow totals.

Here's a couple of totals. Three miles east of Finland, 21 inches of snow. Halfway up the Gunflint Trail, around 20 inches, and then near Silver Bay, about four miles Northwest, 24 inches. That's right, you saw it- two feet of snow. Lacs Lake in that area got 10 inches of snow this morning, according to the Duluth National Weather Service.

And there's a little mesolow, a tiny little low pressure system sitting right off the North Shore, still producing some significant snow between about Two Harbors and Silver Bay. And they're still under a winter storm warning. You are up there. Two Harbors to Silver Bay, if you're listening, through midnight tonight, could get as much as seven more inches, Cathy.

CATHY WURZER: What? What? Usually, you expect a lot of snow on the South Shore. I mean, yes, the North Shore does get snow, especially in the higher elevations. That is absolutely true. But when you think big snow, you think South Shore.

PAUL HUTTNER: Yes, you're right about that. And lake effect snow is really fascinating, if you look at the atmospheric mechanics, because you need two main elements. You need the relatively warm lake waters, and we've had that with temperatures on Superior in the 40s, even mid to upper 40s still, and then colder air, temperatures in the teens and 20s. You need that temperature contrast-- 20, 25, 30 degrees-- to get these lake effect bands. And this is what happens when they come from the east across Lake Superior, back to the west toward the North Shore.

Now, you think they've got it going on up north. Buffalo, New York and areas there are going to get a major lake effect blast. Those water temperatures are in the 50s. We're getting a cold front coming through. It'll push temperatures down into the 20s and teens, so a huge temperature contrast. Cathy, they're talking about three, four, maybe five feet of snow in areas of Southwest New York over the next few days. So this is going to be a prolific lake effect snow event on the southern and eastern shores of the Great Lakes.

CATHY WURZER: Oh, my gosh. Talk about hunkering down. You're digging out. It'll take days to dig out from that.

PAUL HUTTNER: It will.

CATHY WURZER: Wow.

PAUL HUTTNER: Yeah.

CATHY WURZER: OK, so let's look at the forecast here. So we have a weekend coming up here. Is it going to get cold?

PAUL HUTTNER: It is. It's 33 now in the Twin Cities. It's slushy out there, the roads mainly wet. That's the good news. Get stuff cleared off today because it's going to freeze tonight. We're down to maybe about 20 by morning, 25 tomorrow. And then Friday, we're in the teens. Statewide, we'll drop to about 10 by Friday morning in the Twin Cities. Highs in the low to mid-20s this weekend, lows around 10 or 8 above. So it's a prolonged freeze as we head through the weekend.

Good news, though-- if you like milder weather, we're back into the upper 30s, maybe even some 40s next week for Thanksgiving, Cathy. A couple of models have hinted we may even approach 50 again in Southern Minnesota.

CATHY WURZER: Oh, OK. That's definitely weather whiplash then, although decent travel for Thanksgiving though, which is positive.

PAUL HUTTNER: It looks like it. Most of the temperatures should be above freezing, so even if we get a little bit of snow in there, hopefully, the roads would be mainly wet around the upper Midwest.

CATHY WURZER: OK, good. Two minutes left here-- let's talk about "Climate Cast." What are you talking about tomorrow on "Climate Cast"?

PAUL HUTTNER: Yeah, you know, Jeff Masters, who works with Yale Communications-- climate team in Yale, he has done a lot of work in areas of the links between climate change and drought. And as we've talked about before, Cathy, the Mississippi River-- record drought this year, low water levels, Memphis down through Arkansas. People can walk on the river bottom like a half a mile. And 60% of US grain is shipped through that Mississippi River, so it's been a big economic impact.

I talked with Jeff about that, and just how do we link these quick flash droughts with climate change? Very interesting process because basically, you're speeding up the hydrologic cycle. It's like you put the burner and the pan on super high. You pour in a little water. It evaporates so quickly. So we're seeing these things happen faster, and we'll talk about that tomorrow on "Climate Cast" between about 3:00 and 6:00 PM on All Things Considered.

CATHY WURZER: You can also get "Climate Cast" wherever you get your podcasts. Say, by the way, are we in a flash drought, or has it gone on too long now?

PAUL HUTTNER: No. Well, "flash drought," I think, refers more to the speed with which the onset of the drought, like how quickly it develops.

CATHY WURZER: OK.

PAUL HUTTNER: And that's certainly happened this year, and we're in trouble, Cathy. We're down 10 inches. This snow will not help us much around Central and Southern Minnesota. And the ground's going to freeze. So I think we're going to look at spring, and we're going to really need a wet spring to catch up for farmers next year and for lakes and rivers.

CATHY WURZER: All right, Paul Huttner, thanks for taking time to talk with us. We appreciate it. Thank you.

PAUL HUTTNER: Oh, me too.

CATHY WURZER: Talk to you later. OK.

PAUL HUTTNER: Thanks, Cathy.

CATHY WURZER: That is our chief meteorologist, Paul Huttner. For more weather news, by the way, check out his "Updraft" blog. You can find that at mprnews.org. Great images and graphics are explaining what's happening with the weather.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

ANNOUNCER: Support comes from Mall of America, offering holiday rewards when you shop at MOA throughout the season. You can redeem your receipts for tickets to Nick U, Sea Life Aquarium, and more. Learn more at mallofamerica.com/holiday.

ANNOUNCER: Support comes from Think Small Minnesota, supporter of the "Early Risers" podcast, ensuring equitable access to quality care and early learning education for Minnesota's young children, helping reducing child care shortages, and alleviating economic challenges at thinksmall.org.

[BIRDS SQUAWKING]

CATHY WURZER: Oh, I love this. I love that sound. Sandhill cranes gathering by the thousands every fall at the Sherburne National Wildlife Refuge about 50 miles Northwest of the Twin Cities. Every fall, the cranes make their way from Canada to their wintering ground in the Southern US and Mexico. This year, a record number of cranes stopped at the refuge on their trip south. Kirsti Marohn has more.

KIRSTI MAROHN: The Sherburne National Wildlife Refuge is the perfect pit stop for water-loving sandhill cranes. Its vast marshy wetlands offer a safe place for the long-necked leggy birds to congregate, and the surrounding farm fields are full of leftovers from the fall harvest, ready for the taking. It's not unusual for the refuge to host as many as 14,000 sandhill cranes on a typical day in early November.

But during a weekly survey last week, refuge staff and volunteers counted a record number of cranes in a single day-- more than 29,000.

CODY CARLSTROM: It basically blows every previous year's number out of the water.

KIRSTI MAROHN: Cody Carlstrom is a wildlife biologist with the US Fish and Wildlife Service.

CODY CARLSTROM: It certainly surpasses any and all of our previous count estimates that we've had.

KIRSTI MAROHN: Carlstrom says the cranes are looking for a safe area that offers native habitat for resting during their long migration flight. The refuge is attractive because of its abundant marshes, including the 1,500-acre St. Francis Wetland. It's a mix of open water, mudflats, cattails, and rushes, a place where the cranes can gather in large numbers. It also offers protection from predators.

CODY CARLSTROM: And so with the mudflats being exposed, they can poke around for seeds, microinvertebrates, fish, amphibians, and stuff, and basically refuel themselves for migration.

KIRSTI MAROHN: Carlstrom says there's also plenty of waste grain left behind in the farm fields surrounding the refuge. The cranes spend their days hunting for food, then return to the refuge at dusk to roost. They stay until the weather turns colder, and ice forms on the wetlands.

There are many factors likely contributing to the large number of sandhill cranes this year. Their population has rebounded since nearly being wiped out in the late 19th century. Cranes are protected under state and federal law and may not be shot, except for a limited hunting season in northern Minnesota. Also, Carlstrom says this fall's unusually warm weather may have delayed the cranes' migration, causing them to hang around longer.

CODY CARLSTROM: As long as the weather stays mild, they'll continue to come back to the refuge day after day.

KIRSTI MAROHN: For bird lovers, it was an ideal year to view these graceful gray and white creatures, whose wingspan can stretch more than six feet across. Visitors often come to watch and photograph the cranes as they leave the refuge at dawn or return at dusk. Bruce Ellingson is a wildlife photographer and a volunteer interpreter. He's also a member of the nonprofit, Friends of Sherburne National Wildlife Refuge. Ellingson says when thousands of noisy sandhill cranes gather together, their loud rattling calls resemble the roar of a sports crowd.

BRUCE ELLINGSON: It does sound, from a distance, as though there's a Big Ten football game going on, and everybody is cheering.

KIRSTI MAROHN: Dean Kleinhans, another member of the Friends group, has been helping to count the cranes on a weekly basis. This past week, he counted more than 6,000 cranes himself.

DEAN KLEINHANS: Just seeing the birds fly over and hearing their wings fly over, seeing the sun under their wings, it's just really special. Again, you don't get tired of it, just seeing it in person.

KIRSTI MAROHN: With the cold front coming through Minnesota last weekend, many of the cranes have now headed south and won't return until spring. But there should be plenty of opportunities next year to see the cranes, especially along the refuge's outer edges and in the farm fields north of the refuge.

Kleinhans cautions that the St. Francis Wetland, where most of the cranes spend their time, is not accessible to the public, except for those willing to hike about two miles. For some bird lovers, seeing and hearing thousands of cranes gathered in their native habitat might just be worth the effort. With reporting from Ben Hovland, I'm Kirsti Marohn, MPR News, Collegeville.

[MUSIC - MOTHER BANJO, "EYES ON THE SKY"]

(SINGING) It's easy to yes, nod and comply. Gonna shake my--

CATHY WURZER: Now, if you live in the Twin Cities metro area, I bet you recognize this voice. That's folk musician, Mother Banjo, known as Ellen Stanley. Ellen is the creator and the voice of one of the longest running radio shows in North America, no lie. Ellen show is Womenfolk. It airs on KFAI, Fresh Air Community Radio in Minneapolis. It's carried on stations across the country, available via PRX. Oh, it's a great show.

Her show highlights women in folk music, and this month celebrates 20 years on the air with a special performance of folk musicians at the Parkway Theater in Minneapolis. I am honored that Ellen Stanley is here to share more. Hey, congratulations.

ELLEN STANLEY: Thank you so much, Cathy. I kind of can't believe it's been 20 years. Wasn't that just yesterday I moved to Minneapolis? I don't know.

CATHY WURZER: I know, right? This is not an easy business. 20 years is a long time. What's the secret sauce for success?

ELLEN STANLEY: Well, passion. I'm just a big music nerd. I think everything I've done in music, and I've worn a lot of hats as a musician, as you mentioned, and promoting other people's music and just sharing it on the airwaves as a DJ. And I think it all stems from being a mega fan.

You know, I grew up making mixtapes for my friends and sharing music that I thought was cool. And that's basically what being a DJ is is sharing music that you think that other people would like and get enjoyment out of and spreading the gospel of good music.

CATHY WURZER: You could have done any genre, but you focused on folk music, women in folk music. Tell me the story.

ELLEN STANLEY: Well, I got my radio start in college, at Oberlin College in Ohio at WOBC. And again, sort of continuing that music nerdery, I was just interested in doing radio. I had no experience, but that's what college radio is for. And there were a few folk shows that were already on the air on the station, but I just noticed that there were-- there just weren't many women being played on those shows. So really, it was just I saw a need, and I thought I'd apply to do a women's folk show. And I got it and have been doing women's folk music programming ever since.

Now, 25 years total of doing women's folk radio programming, people ask me, is it still necessary? And sadly, yes, because there are many artists who would not get the attention they deserve if it weren't for the show.

CATHY WURZER: What do women bring to folk?

ELLEN STANLEY: A different perspective. I think any time you have any kind of underrepresented voice shared on the airwaves, sharing different people's stories, and music is just an extension of that, right? It's-- and that's why I like folk music. It's about storytelling. And I think any time you do that, whether it's women or people of color or LGBTQ+, I think the idea that you're having other stories represented is really important because if it's only white men being represented, then you're missing out on the human experience.

CATHY WURZER: You know, I'm going to fangirl on you here right now and tell you that I listen, and I really love your interviews with-- so there you go-- especially those with the national folk musicians, you know. What are your tips for connecting and getting the most out of a conversation?

ELLEN STANLEY: Well, obviously, if you can do it face to face, that's always better, which I know in radio is challenging, and you know all about this. But I think the main thing is to be able to just show, A, that you know the music, and people feel more comfortable, but also to ask them questions that they don't normally get asked and, you know, fun questions.

And one of the things that I found is great is to ask them, you know, what are they reading, or what kind of food they eat on the road, or something that's not maybe out of their press kit, you know, that makes them just feel like, oh, this person is interested in me as opposed to just this person wants to promote my record.

CATHY WURZER: Of course, people ask me this all the time about memorable interviews, and I usually have no great answer because I can't remember. There's been so many interviews. Do you have one, perhaps, that sticks out in your mind for you?

ELLEN STANLEY: Oh, yes. Joan Baez-- hands down my favorite interview of all time. And I was pretty nervous about doing that. I didn't know her personally, an=d-- but of course, was a big fan. And her manager told me-- this was before a show at the O'Shaughnessy Auditorium at Saint Kate's a bunch of years ago. And her manager said, yes, you can do this interview at the venue after her soundcheck, but you only have 10 minutes. So I was like, OK, so I was really trying to make the most of my 10 minutes with her.

And when the 10 minutes was about to be up, I said, you know, I know we have to wrap things up. And she said, we don't have to wrap things up. I'd love to-- I'd love to keep talking to you. And we talked for another 30 minutes, and she was so gracious and lovely. And at the end of the interview, she said-- I asked her, is there anything else you'd like to share with KFAI listeners?

And she said, well, first, I want to say you're an excellent interviewer. And I think I just about died on the spot. I was like-- I was like, I don't care if she's just being nice. It was the fact that she even bothered to tell me that after all the interviews she's done was just like-- I'm like, I could just retire right now. But, of course, I haven't, so.

CATHY WURZER: Wow. That is a great memory. And I bet you learned a lot from her about music.

ELLEN STANLEY: Yeah, and I think that's one thing that I really enjoy about doing the artist interviews is that I feel like I learn so much from the musicians about talking about them, how they do their craft, how they approach their careers. And I think that's what listeners enjoy, too, is that-- because I've worn a lot of different hats in the music industry, I think people like that I can bring some of that knowledge and sort of translate it for folks who maybe aren't musicians. And I think people really appreciate that, getting to see these musicians as people, but also get an insider's look into what it's like to create music in this day and age.

CATHY WURZER: Oh, I need to talk about this live performance coming up at the Parkway to celebrate the 20th anniversary of Womenfolk. So you've got a long lineup of musicians, which is great. And we're going to have to listen to some of the music too. I want to play a little bit by Becky Schlegel right now. This is called "Red Leaf," and then we'll talk about it.

[MUSIC PLAYING - BECKY SCHLEGEL, "RED LEAF"]

(SINGING) Little red leaf falling on the ground. Little red leaf times have all run out. Sunshine be damned, the air is crisp. I didn't know it was going to feel like this.

CATHY WURZER: Ooh, her voice is just so clear. Love that. Tell me more about Becky.

ELLEN STANLEY: Well, Becky has been a part of Womenfolk ever since I have started hosting the show. In fact, she was one of the first Minnesota artists that I heard when I moved to the Twin Cities. She was playing at the Minnesota Folk Festival in Mounds Park in Saint Paul, and I'd just moved to town. And I said, who is that voice? And I ran over to the stage, and it was Becky Schlegel. And she might have even been singing this song. This record came out around that time, so she was definitely singing this song.

I was just struck by her. I was like, oh, she's like-- she's kind of like an Alison Krauss style voice, but this incredible songwriter. And she just has a ton of them. But this song felt like an appropriate one because it feels like it marks the beginning of Womenfolk for me because it had not only just come out around that time, but it also was one of the first Minnesota artists I discovered when I moved here.

CATHY WURZER: Oh, she's got a gorgeous voice, gorgeous voice. You're going to hear from Mary Cutrufello fellow next. We're going to hear "Rollin' and Tumblin'."

ELLEN STANLEY: Yes.

[MUSIC PLAYING - MARY CUTRUFELLO, "ROLLIN' AND TUMBLIN'"]

(SINGING) Well, I don't need your bad advice. Heard it once. Don't need to hear it twice, baby. All your talkin' brings me down. I won't be comin' back around, baby. I'm just rollin', rollin' and tumblin'.

CATHY WURZER: She reminds me of Janis Joplin. I'm just going to say that out loud. What do you think?

ELLEN STANLEY: Yeah. Well, she definitely has that sort of the crossroads of, like, rock and blues and roots music, American roots music, which, certainly, Janis had. And Mary-- it's funny. Mary lived for a while in Texas, lives in Minnesota, and has for a bunch of years now.

But she's originally from my home state of Connecticut, but we didn't actually meet until we both were in Minnesota. And I probably met her in the halls of KFAI when she was actually on someone else's show, and I was like, you're awesome. And I've been playing her music ever since.

Mary also does a ton of country stuff, so she just she brings a whole other element. And I think one of the things when I was thinking of this lineup for the November 20th anniversary concert at the Parkway Theater, was to have artists that represented not only different flavors of folk music, because I consider that folk music as well. It's not just the acoustic singer-songwriters.

But I wanted to have different flavors, but also folks that I had kind of a personal connection to in my tenure of hosting Womenfolk and different generations of songwriters too, so people who are of different ages. And it's impossible to do all of those things, but I tried my best. And Mary was one of those artists I really wanted to have on the show.

CATHY WURZER: Terrific. Say, 20 years-- how long do you want to keep doing this, another 20?

ELLEN STANLEY: I don't know. I keep saying that-- because I've been asked this not just now. I've been asked this for many years, again, because often, people ask me whether, again, I think the show is still relevant and all these things. And I keep saying, well, as long as you know KFAI and these other stations still want to carry the show, show an interest, then, of course.

But at any time, KFAI could be like, we need to make way for something else, and I would totally understand that. Or if I get bored, that's probably the other thing. But for now, I'm having a blast, and I think actually syndicating the show, which is a product of the pandemic, beefing up my home studio and learning how to do that stuff, I think has really been an exciting new chapter for Womenfolk. So I'm energized for a while, so I have a feeling there's still a lot of new things for me to do.

CATHY WURZER: Good. I'm glad to hear that. So are your fans. You know what? This has been an absolute delight. I'm so happy you had time to join me. Thank you so much, Ellen, and congratulations.

ELLEN STANLEY: Thank you so much, Cathy. It's such a treat to talk to you.

CATHY WURZER: I think, Ellen, we should go out to a song that you want to play. You want to introduce it too because I can't-- I'm not a DJ, so I think should take the mic right now.

ELLEN STANLEY: OK. We're going to hear something from Molly Maher's latest album, Follow. Molly has been a big part of the show, a big part of the music scene, not just as a musician, guitarist, songwriter, but as a curator, community supporter of local musicians. I think I bought one of my DI boxes for my banjo from her at Willie's Guitar. So she's been a big part of the music scene. We're going to hear something from her latest album, Follow. This is "Run Run."

[MUSIC PLAYING - MOLLY MAHER, "RUN RUN RUN"]

(SINGING) Run, run, run, you're taking too long. Don't know how it started or how it came apart. Run, run, run, you take it on the chin. Don't know where it came from or where it's gonna end. Think you're all about it. What did you know?

CATHY WURZER: That definitely was one of my favorite interviews of the whole year. I tell you what. Ellen Stanley is amazing. She's the host of the radio program, Womenfolk, which airs on KFAI, Fresh Air Community Radio in Minneapolis, and across the country through PRX. The 20th anniversary performance of her show will take place at the Parkway Theater in Minneapolis this coming Sunday, November 20th. You can find tickets at theparkwaytheater.com.

All my friends in Silver Bay, I'm telling you, I'm sure you're looking out the window thinking, is it going to stop? What's going on? It's like the snow fire hose right over Lake Superior dumping snow on Silver Bay-- two feet so far. More is to come. Sorry about that, friends along the North Shore of Lake Superior. Winter weather alert for that whole area with more snow. The snow will continue on and off throughout the day today. Light snow is likely tonight. On and off light snow throughout the day tomorrow, too.

More on the weather can always be found on the Updraft blog at mprnews.org. Thank you so much for listening to Minnesota Now here on MPR News. Make it a good day.

Support for Minnesota Now comes from TruStone Financial Credit Union, dedicated to giving back to the community since 1939. Full service banking is available at 23 locations and online at trustone.org. TruStone's an equal housing opportunity lender, insured by NCUA.

Let's see. I'm going to look out the window here in downtown Saint Paul. I see it's cloudy, and it's 32 degrees. It's MPR News, 91.1, KNOW, Minneapolis, Saint Paul.

Let us see here. It looks like we're going to stick around 32 for today's high. Anymore snow? Probably not. Mostly flurries today. 40% chance for snow after midnight tonight. Maybe a coating of snow tomorrow morning when you wake up. Temperatures in the 20s, and then we get pretty cold on Friday. But the snow will stop. Mostly cloudy skies Friday. Temperatures will be around 14 degrees. It's going to be a cold weekend as well. Again, it's 32 at 1 o'clock.