Fargo art museum podcast connects with Indigenous creators
Joe Williams is director of Native American Programs at Fargo’s Plains Art Museum and the host of the 5 Plain Questions podcast.
Courtesy of Oscar "Guero" De Leon, Jr.
The Plains Art Museum has been around in one form or another since 1965, when it opened in a Moorhead post office.
The museum has since crossed the border into Fargo and now has over 4,000 items in its collection. It also produces a couple podcasts, including 5 Plain Questions, a show that poses five general questions to Indigenous artists, creators, musicians, writers and culture bearers.
Joe Williams
Courtesy of Plains Art Museum
MPR News Host Cathy Wurzer talks with Joe Williams, the museum’s director of Native American Programs and host of the podcast.
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Audio transcript
CATHY WURZER: We have a segment here on the program where we look at regionally-based podcasts. There's a good one produced by the Plains Art Museum. The museum has been around in one form or another since 1965. It started in a Moorhead post office, but later relocated to Fargo. The museum has more than 4,000 items in its collection and produces a couple of podcasts.
We've got Joe Williams with us today. He's the museum's director of Native American Programs, and the host of 5 Plain Questions. It's the podcast that poses five general questions to Indigenous artists, creators, musicians, writers, and culture bearers. Joe, welcome to the program. How have you been?
JOE WILLIAMS: I'm doing great. Thank you so much, Cathy.
CATHY WURZER: Thanks for being here. So tell me about the genesis for this podcast, how did it come about?
JOE WILLIAMS: It was something that I had been thinking about for a couple of years, and I was just sort of sitting on the shelf. We do exhibitions here, and I was sort of doing the math about we can exhibit so many artists in our space, but we would never be able to tell their stories as much as we would like to. And when we had to shutter our doors to the pandemic, it was sort of my opportunity to reach out to Andy Maus, our director here at the museum and pitch the idea that we would, yeah, we would keep having programs. And so he was all for it, and we got rolling right away in April of 2,000-- right when the pandemic hit.
CATHY WURZER: Now, did you do video and audio?
JOE WILLIAMS: We broadcast in audio, although the majority of the interviews are done with video mostly for a connection between myself and the guest. But I think it's really important to have the listener connect to the voice of the individual and their story.
CATHY WURZER: Yeah. The voice really is more intimate that way, I think. Let me ask you about the five questions, what are they?
JOE WILLIAMS: So they're very straightforward, open-ended questions, right? The first one, of course, is I ask the guests to introduce themselves. And I love it when the guest is able to speak their traditional language. And it's an opportunity for them to sort of open up about themselves and talk a little bit about themselves. I think it's also important that we acknowledge and recognize those who influenced us, those who had brought us to where we are today. And so I do ask them to talk about their influences.
And then we sort of dive into their career. If they've been to school, what that experience was like, and how their career has gone. And we transition then to the question about opportunities. I think as we move through our careers, opportunities present themselves in different ways. And it's always interesting to hear, I guess, how the guest has either sought or has received opportunities.
And finally, the last question, the last official question is about what advice would they give an 18- to 22-year-old or the listener listening to this program. I often like to think that our listener is maybe a younger person listening, and I think it's a great resource for them to be able to connect with people a little further down the path than they are, and to get some really good advice.
CATHY WURZER: Let's talk about some of the artists you've had on the podcast. Now, I know you've spoken with the artist Dyani White Hawk, who is really taking off right now. She's a nationally top-tier artist. Let's listen to something she said.
[AUDIO PLAYBACK]
- How have I developed my career? Slowly but surely, and step by step. So when I was in college, I really focused on being in college. So I wasn't-- I purposefully and strategically didn't make efforts to be showing or making big gains within the field while I was in school. I really wanted to focus on what I was doing at that time on my development, on building my own voice, and who I was. And so that when I did hit the ground, I could hit the ground running.
[END PLAYBACK]
CATHY WURZER: Now, is this the artist who does the abstract versions of traditional dresses?
JOE WILLIAMS: Yes. It's one of the series that she has done. She gives series, yeah. What so impresses me with Dyani is not so much the-- I guess one part is she's very intentional on her moves and what she's doing. She really thinks things through. But the other part is just, technically, she is so advanced in her work.
Oftentimes, I think, like, most of us, we look at work, and we say, oh, that's great. And you can maybe see yourself being inspired by some works. I look at Dyani's work, and there is no way I could ever be in the ballpark, as an artist myself, to be able to come to do what she does. I am so impressed with her work.
CATHY WURZER: She is terrific. She is terrific. Now, we know that a few Indigenous-made TV shows have captured a lot of attention, Reservation Dogs comes to mind. I understand that you interviewed someone from that creative team, and this is Dallas Goldtooth. So we want to hear from Dallas.
[AUDIO PLAYBACK]
- I am the co-creator of a sketch comedy group called the 1491s. And it's five of us, Native men, who created that group over 15 years ago. One of the core members of that group is my brother Migizi Pensoneau. I grew up-- Migizi is my stepbrother. We grew up together. His mom and my dad shacked up in South Side Minneapolis, and they were Indian married for a number of years. Indian married, they never formally got married, but they're basically married, that is what happened. So we grew up with each other and it was my brother, Migizi's dream, is always his dream to make movies.
[END PLAYBACK]
CATHY WURZER: Oh, so what did you think of that conversation with Dallas?
JOE WILLIAMS: First off, I love comedians. Comedians-- I've had a number of comedians on the show, they are just so free with what they want to say, they're not protective. And Dallas comes from that Native American Indigenous community that I come from. And so I so appreciate the humor that he brings, but he's also extremely gracious in how he works with community. And he, hands down, is one of my favorite interviews in this podcast. And I hate to say that with all these amazing people I've had, but he was so much fun.
CATHY WURZER: I think I love the show. It's sincere and it's honest.
JOE WILLIAMS: Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm from the Sisseton Wahpeton Oyate. I'm a enrolled member of the tribe there. And growing up on a reservation, many of us, we know when we're being pandered to in the pop culture. And the beautiful thing about Reservation Dogs is that that show comes from our community. It is told by our community members. And so it feels like we're watching relatives tell stories and it's sincerely one of the funniest and heartfelt shows that I've seen.
CATHY WURZER: What do you want listeners to take away from 5 Plain Questions?
JOE WILLIAMS: I think it's really important for Native American and Indigenous people to be the ones telling their own stories. Their stories don't need to be filtered through different media groups, through museum's curators like myself. I think it's really important for the listener to connect on a human level with these artists because where they come from, their hopes and fears, and their dreams, and their wishes are all the same as is everyone else's. And I think it's really important that the listener really connect with their perspective because I think we all have so much more in common than we realize. And every episode just demonstrates that wholeheartedly.
CATHY WURZER: So your fourth season begins February 1, what's the first episode?
JOE WILLIAMS: Yes. We're going to have Kay WalkingStick. She is one of the top-tier artists in the country. I'm really excited. I've sort of set the bar really high for myself because season 2 we started off with Jaune Quick-to-See Smith, the third season we had Joy Harjo on the show, and now Kay WalkingStick. And I'm just-- it's going to be a challenge moving into the next seasons trying to find such top-tier artists and individuals in our communities.
CATHY WURZER: My money's on you, Joe. Good work, by the way. Thank you so much.
JOE WILLIAMS: Oh, thank you. It's such an honor being here.
CATHY WURZER: It's an honor to have you here. Joe Williams is the Director of Native American Programs at Fargo's Plains Art Museum, and the host of the 5 Plain Questions podcast. You can find the podcast at plainsart.org/podcasts.
We've got Joe Williams with us today. He's the museum's director of Native American Programs, and the host of 5 Plain Questions. It's the podcast that poses five general questions to Indigenous artists, creators, musicians, writers, and culture bearers. Joe, welcome to the program. How have you been?
JOE WILLIAMS: I'm doing great. Thank you so much, Cathy.
CATHY WURZER: Thanks for being here. So tell me about the genesis for this podcast, how did it come about?
JOE WILLIAMS: It was something that I had been thinking about for a couple of years, and I was just sort of sitting on the shelf. We do exhibitions here, and I was sort of doing the math about we can exhibit so many artists in our space, but we would never be able to tell their stories as much as we would like to. And when we had to shutter our doors to the pandemic, it was sort of my opportunity to reach out to Andy Maus, our director here at the museum and pitch the idea that we would, yeah, we would keep having programs. And so he was all for it, and we got rolling right away in April of 2,000-- right when the pandemic hit.
CATHY WURZER: Now, did you do video and audio?
JOE WILLIAMS: We broadcast in audio, although the majority of the interviews are done with video mostly for a connection between myself and the guest. But I think it's really important to have the listener connect to the voice of the individual and their story.
CATHY WURZER: Yeah. The voice really is more intimate that way, I think. Let me ask you about the five questions, what are they?
JOE WILLIAMS: So they're very straightforward, open-ended questions, right? The first one, of course, is I ask the guests to introduce themselves. And I love it when the guest is able to speak their traditional language. And it's an opportunity for them to sort of open up about themselves and talk a little bit about themselves. I think it's also important that we acknowledge and recognize those who influenced us, those who had brought us to where we are today. And so I do ask them to talk about their influences.
And then we sort of dive into their career. If they've been to school, what that experience was like, and how their career has gone. And we transition then to the question about opportunities. I think as we move through our careers, opportunities present themselves in different ways. And it's always interesting to hear, I guess, how the guest has either sought or has received opportunities.
And finally, the last question, the last official question is about what advice would they give an 18- to 22-year-old or the listener listening to this program. I often like to think that our listener is maybe a younger person listening, and I think it's a great resource for them to be able to connect with people a little further down the path than they are, and to get some really good advice.
CATHY WURZER: Let's talk about some of the artists you've had on the podcast. Now, I know you've spoken with the artist Dyani White Hawk, who is really taking off right now. She's a nationally top-tier artist. Let's listen to something she said.
[AUDIO PLAYBACK]
- How have I developed my career? Slowly but surely, and step by step. So when I was in college, I really focused on being in college. So I wasn't-- I purposefully and strategically didn't make efforts to be showing or making big gains within the field while I was in school. I really wanted to focus on what I was doing at that time on my development, on building my own voice, and who I was. And so that when I did hit the ground, I could hit the ground running.
[END PLAYBACK]
CATHY WURZER: Now, is this the artist who does the abstract versions of traditional dresses?
JOE WILLIAMS: Yes. It's one of the series that she has done. She gives series, yeah. What so impresses me with Dyani is not so much the-- I guess one part is she's very intentional on her moves and what she's doing. She really thinks things through. But the other part is just, technically, she is so advanced in her work.
Oftentimes, I think, like, most of us, we look at work, and we say, oh, that's great. And you can maybe see yourself being inspired by some works. I look at Dyani's work, and there is no way I could ever be in the ballpark, as an artist myself, to be able to come to do what she does. I am so impressed with her work.
CATHY WURZER: She is terrific. She is terrific. Now, we know that a few Indigenous-made TV shows have captured a lot of attention, Reservation Dogs comes to mind. I understand that you interviewed someone from that creative team, and this is Dallas Goldtooth. So we want to hear from Dallas.
[AUDIO PLAYBACK]
- I am the co-creator of a sketch comedy group called the 1491s. And it's five of us, Native men, who created that group over 15 years ago. One of the core members of that group is my brother Migizi Pensoneau. I grew up-- Migizi is my stepbrother. We grew up together. His mom and my dad shacked up in South Side Minneapolis, and they were Indian married for a number of years. Indian married, they never formally got married, but they're basically married, that is what happened. So we grew up with each other and it was my brother, Migizi's dream, is always his dream to make movies.
[END PLAYBACK]
CATHY WURZER: Oh, so what did you think of that conversation with Dallas?
JOE WILLIAMS: First off, I love comedians. Comedians-- I've had a number of comedians on the show, they are just so free with what they want to say, they're not protective. And Dallas comes from that Native American Indigenous community that I come from. And so I so appreciate the humor that he brings, but he's also extremely gracious in how he works with community. And he, hands down, is one of my favorite interviews in this podcast. And I hate to say that with all these amazing people I've had, but he was so much fun.
CATHY WURZER: I think I love the show. It's sincere and it's honest.
JOE WILLIAMS: Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm from the Sisseton Wahpeton Oyate. I'm a enrolled member of the tribe there. And growing up on a reservation, many of us, we know when we're being pandered to in the pop culture. And the beautiful thing about Reservation Dogs is that that show comes from our community. It is told by our community members. And so it feels like we're watching relatives tell stories and it's sincerely one of the funniest and heartfelt shows that I've seen.
CATHY WURZER: What do you want listeners to take away from 5 Plain Questions?
JOE WILLIAMS: I think it's really important for Native American and Indigenous people to be the ones telling their own stories. Their stories don't need to be filtered through different media groups, through museum's curators like myself. I think it's really important for the listener to connect on a human level with these artists because where they come from, their hopes and fears, and their dreams, and their wishes are all the same as is everyone else's. And I think it's really important that the listener really connect with their perspective because I think we all have so much more in common than we realize. And every episode just demonstrates that wholeheartedly.
CATHY WURZER: So your fourth season begins February 1, what's the first episode?
JOE WILLIAMS: Yes. We're going to have Kay WalkingStick. She is one of the top-tier artists in the country. I'm really excited. I've sort of set the bar really high for myself because season 2 we started off with Jaune Quick-to-See Smith, the third season we had Joy Harjo on the show, and now Kay WalkingStick. And I'm just-- it's going to be a challenge moving into the next seasons trying to find such top-tier artists and individuals in our communities.
CATHY WURZER: My money's on you, Joe. Good work, by the way. Thank you so much.
JOE WILLIAMS: Oh, thank you. It's such an honor being here.
CATHY WURZER: It's an honor to have you here. Joe Williams is the Director of Native American Programs at Fargo's Plains Art Museum, and the host of the 5 Plain Questions podcast. You can find the podcast at plainsart.org/podcasts.
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