Medical storytelling brings the human side of health care to the stage
Tseganesh Selameab is a primary care doctor and storyteller based in St. Paul. She is working with the podcast the Nocturnists to organize a live medical storytelling event scheduled for Earth Day 2023.
Courtesy of Tseganesh Selameab
People working in medicine have to be experts on the inner workings of the human body. But treating a patient involves much more than learning the textbook. At it's best, medicine involves treating the whole person.
A group based at the University of Minnesota is teaming up with a popular podcast to bring the human side of health care to the stage. Seven health care professionals will share their stories at a live event in Minneapolis on April 22.
Dr. Tseganesh Selameab is one of the organizers and an associate director of the Center for Art in Medicine at the University of Minnesota. She told her story in a recent episode of the podcast, “The Nocturnists.” She joined MPR News host Cathy Wurzer to talk about medical storytelling.
“A lot of what makes a good physician is the ability to hear what people are saying and with more than just the words, but with their whole presence in the room and then being able to understand what their concerns are,” Selameab said. “And then how do we partner with them to help them achieve whatever the goal is that they've set for themselves?
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She says it is important that she connects with her patients on a human level and through heart, body and mind.
A lot of the work is unlearning what one may have been told about their chosen job field Selameab said. It is important that they are people first, then physicians.
“I am not separate from community … I can tell you story after story of where my patients saw me as human and how much that bolstered me in my practice, and how much it helps sustain me during times when the work was very hard.”
Learn more about the event, “Rebirth: An Evening of Medical Storytelling,” here.
Use the audio player above to listen to the full conversation.
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Audio transcript
CATHY WURZER: People working in medicine have to be experts on the inner workings of the human body, right? But treating a patient involves much more than learning the textbook. At its best, medicine involves treating the whole person.
There's a group based at the University of Minnesota teaming up with a popular podcast to bring the human side of healthcare to the stage. Seven healthcare professionals will share their stories at a live event in Minneapolis this coming weekend. Dr. Tseganesh Selameab is one of the organizers and an associate director of the Center for Art in Medicine at the University of Minnesota.
She told her story in a recent episode of the podcast The Nocturnists. Here she is talking about walking into her primary care practice and seeing a blue envelope on her desk.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: The blue envelope tells me that there is a new arrival. One of the best parts of my new job is I get to take care of refugees when they first come here, sometimes within the first 72 hours.
And I open up that blue envelope. I take out the paper. And there's a grainy picture of my patient in the left upper-hand corner. And I flip through it for all of the diagnoses and ICD-10 codes and what their doctors had said before.
The green dot comes on, and now I follow a gray carpet with some weird pattern on it to the door. [? Fi, ?] our current interpreter, is waiting for me.
So we knock on the door and walk in. There's a lovely grandma waiting for me with her even older and lovelier husband. And their daughter is also watching.
So I pull up my chair, I sit down, and introduce myself to them as their new doctor. And I say, tell me, how are you doing today?
CATHY WURZER: Wow. Dr. Selameab is with us right now. Thanks for coming on the program.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: Thank you so much for having me and sharing my story.
CATHY WURZER: OK, in that clip we just heard, you are seeing someone's story for the first time in that blue envelope. Gosh, as a physician, your job involves many more stories than people think, right? Your job involves finding and telling stories.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: That's right. A lot of what makes a good physician is the ability to hear what people are saying and with more than just the words, but with their whole presence in the room And then being able to understand what their concerns are, what their deeper concerns are. And then, how do we partner with them to help them achieve whatever the goal is that they've set for themselves?
CATHY WURZER: I'm so glad that you're a good listener. And physicians, that's a hard-- it's a hard skill for anybody, right? But, gosh, physicians have what, 15, 20 minutes in an office visit. It's pretty tough. You're trying to plow through a lot of stuff. How have you honed your listening skills?
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: Well, the amazing part about being a physician-- I'm a primary care doctor so we always think this long view. I'm going to see a patient back in clinic. Not everything has to be done today. And the number one thing about what you call the plowing through is I'm not going to get anywhere with the things that I think are important if I haven't listened and addressed the thing that the person came in with.
So I may have anxieties about all of these other health problems that I want to talk about. But whatever they came in with, if I don't talk to that or I don't get to what it is that they want me to do, we're not going to get anywhere.
CATHY WURZER: I so admire physicians. You all are so smart. But to be honest, you're in your heads a lot, right?
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: Yeah.
CATHY WURZER: Yeah. So does storytelling, this art that you are involved in, help physicians get into their heart more?
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: Yes. So when we do storytelling, a lot of times you can think about a story-- and we practice a lot of telling each other's stories when we're talking about patients. So and so came in with this complaint and here's what I'd found. But this is very different. This is actually connecting with the human that I am, me as a human being taking care of another human being. And how do I engage in my story in that place and with the person's story that they're bringing in to the place?
So it's very different. It's this skill of being in our bodies, connecting our minds and our hearts and our bodies in both storytelling as well as receiving stories.
CATHY WURZER: And we really as a society haven't created the space for a mind-body connection like that.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: Right. Yeah. So we talk about coaching-- when you're coaching physicians-- especially when you're coaching physicians in storytelling-- it is part storytelling coaching, but it's also a lot of therapy, as we try to help them reconnect those two things.
CATHY WURZER: In your field, you clearly see a lot of grief and pain almost every day. So how do you balance empathy with the need to care for yourself so you can keep doing your job? It's a lot to absorb.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: It is. And I've been in practice for over 20 years. And when I first started, there was no space for that. The definition of a good physician was one that was self-sacrificing. And so everything was getting laid at the altar of medicine. People will tell stories of how they missed their child's birth or how they didn't go to the bathroom for 25 hours, or whatever these things are that we held as badges of honors.
And what's happened, which has been amazing recently in medical education and in our practices, is we first acknowledge we are human. We are human beings with human needs and emotions and desires. And if we can attend to ourselves, we're actually in a better place to attend to others.
CATHY WURZER: How does the Center for Art in Medicine do that at the U?
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: We hold space. I think that has been our biggest role at the University. We hold space for physicians to start exploring storytelling in their practices. We're highly integrated into curriculum. And so we're actually really probably a center of excellence in how you integrate the humanities and narrative medicine and storytelling into medical students' formation and their professional identity formation.
Really, it's a skill. So we're also really good at skill building and community connections around those things.
CATHY WURZER: You've been working with the podcast, The Nocturnists, which I love to organize this live storytelling events.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: I love it.
CATHY WURZER: I know. I know. It's coming up Saturday, in Minneapolis. And the theme is rebirth.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: It is.
CATHY WURZER: So tell us about this.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: Well, it makes sense. When we were brainstorming themes-- it lands on Earth Day-- and so this idea of rebirth came out of that. But also, as we've been dealing with the COVID pandemic, many of us, as an organization, as individuals, have had to rethink and rebirth how we approach medicine, how we approach our practices, how we integrate our lives into our practices.
And so the storytellers are phenomenal! I cannot wait for people to hear the work they've been doing, and exploring all the different ways in which we go through a rebirthing process.
CATHY WURZER: OK. So I know there are seven storytellers.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: Yes.
CATHY WURZER: Five are from Minnesota. But I'm curious about how the stories work with HIPAA, the HIPAA rules and patient privacy.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: I feel like I'm on one of on-the-job trainings, Cathy.
CATHY WURZER: Sorry.
[LAUGHTER]
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: That's OK. We don't violate any-- so it turns out actually, a lot of the stories are about the storyteller. So they're telling their stories. Again, this idea of humanizing the physician. So that's part of it.
And then, whenever they do share patients' stories or there's an interaction with patients, we're very careful to maintain privacy, either by de-personalizing it so it's not identifiable or by seeking consent.
CATHY WURZER: So you get to see your doctor as a human being, with their own lives and struggles, in a sense.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: Isn't that amazing?
CATHY WURZER: Yeah, I know. Which I would bet probably make some docs be sweaty-palmed. Because you also want to see your doctor as strong and being a decisive individual. And I bet that that's hard for some doctors.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: It's actually an unlearning or a relearning we as a society have to do-- as a broader society and we as physicians. You know, I am not separate from community. I shop at Target. My kids go to school. The laws that are passed by the city council affect me.
So this idea of reintegrating ourselves into community-- and that also allows the community to really show up for physicians in different ways.
I can tell you story after story of where my patients saw me as human and how much that bolstered me in my practice and how much it helped sustain me during times when the work was very hard.
CATHY WURZER: I had a good friend who died of ALS. And he said, if my doctor can't cry with me, they're worthless to me. So he concentrated on physicians that actually were human and could show the full spectrum of their humanity.
So if someone wants to go to this event, how do they do this?
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: Well, we are on the Parkway website. You can get tickets that way. Through Eventbrite as well. And hopefully, you'll put it in the show notes, Cathy, so that they can get it that way, too.
CATHY WURZER: I would be happy to do that, Doctor. Thank you. I will see you there, as a matter of fact. I appreciate your time. Thank you.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: Oh, wonderful. We'll be very excited to see you. Thank you so much.
CATHY WURZER: We'll talk to you soon. Dr. Tseganesh Selameab has been with us. She is a primary care doctor in St. Paul. She is the associate director of the Center for Art in medicine at the U, which is co-hosting an evening of medical storytelling with The Nocturnists podcast Saturday, Parkway Theater, in Minneapolis. It's at 7 o'clock.
Thanks for being with us here on Minnesota Now, from NPR News.
There's a group based at the University of Minnesota teaming up with a popular podcast to bring the human side of healthcare to the stage. Seven healthcare professionals will share their stories at a live event in Minneapolis this coming weekend. Dr. Tseganesh Selameab is one of the organizers and an associate director of the Center for Art in Medicine at the University of Minnesota.
She told her story in a recent episode of the podcast The Nocturnists. Here she is talking about walking into her primary care practice and seeing a blue envelope on her desk.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: The blue envelope tells me that there is a new arrival. One of the best parts of my new job is I get to take care of refugees when they first come here, sometimes within the first 72 hours.
And I open up that blue envelope. I take out the paper. And there's a grainy picture of my patient in the left upper-hand corner. And I flip through it for all of the diagnoses and ICD-10 codes and what their doctors had said before.
The green dot comes on, and now I follow a gray carpet with some weird pattern on it to the door. [? Fi, ?] our current interpreter, is waiting for me.
So we knock on the door and walk in. There's a lovely grandma waiting for me with her even older and lovelier husband. And their daughter is also watching.
So I pull up my chair, I sit down, and introduce myself to them as their new doctor. And I say, tell me, how are you doing today?
CATHY WURZER: Wow. Dr. Selameab is with us right now. Thanks for coming on the program.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: Thank you so much for having me and sharing my story.
CATHY WURZER: OK, in that clip we just heard, you are seeing someone's story for the first time in that blue envelope. Gosh, as a physician, your job involves many more stories than people think, right? Your job involves finding and telling stories.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: That's right. A lot of what makes a good physician is the ability to hear what people are saying and with more than just the words, but with their whole presence in the room And then being able to understand what their concerns are, what their deeper concerns are. And then, how do we partner with them to help them achieve whatever the goal is that they've set for themselves?
CATHY WURZER: I'm so glad that you're a good listener. And physicians, that's a hard-- it's a hard skill for anybody, right? But, gosh, physicians have what, 15, 20 minutes in an office visit. It's pretty tough. You're trying to plow through a lot of stuff. How have you honed your listening skills?
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: Well, the amazing part about being a physician-- I'm a primary care doctor so we always think this long view. I'm going to see a patient back in clinic. Not everything has to be done today. And the number one thing about what you call the plowing through is I'm not going to get anywhere with the things that I think are important if I haven't listened and addressed the thing that the person came in with.
So I may have anxieties about all of these other health problems that I want to talk about. But whatever they came in with, if I don't talk to that or I don't get to what it is that they want me to do, we're not going to get anywhere.
CATHY WURZER: I so admire physicians. You all are so smart. But to be honest, you're in your heads a lot, right?
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: Yeah.
CATHY WURZER: Yeah. So does storytelling, this art that you are involved in, help physicians get into their heart more?
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: Yes. So when we do storytelling, a lot of times you can think about a story-- and we practice a lot of telling each other's stories when we're talking about patients. So and so came in with this complaint and here's what I'd found. But this is very different. This is actually connecting with the human that I am, me as a human being taking care of another human being. And how do I engage in my story in that place and with the person's story that they're bringing in to the place?
So it's very different. It's this skill of being in our bodies, connecting our minds and our hearts and our bodies in both storytelling as well as receiving stories.
CATHY WURZER: And we really as a society haven't created the space for a mind-body connection like that.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: Right. Yeah. So we talk about coaching-- when you're coaching physicians-- especially when you're coaching physicians in storytelling-- it is part storytelling coaching, but it's also a lot of therapy, as we try to help them reconnect those two things.
CATHY WURZER: In your field, you clearly see a lot of grief and pain almost every day. So how do you balance empathy with the need to care for yourself so you can keep doing your job? It's a lot to absorb.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: It is. And I've been in practice for over 20 years. And when I first started, there was no space for that. The definition of a good physician was one that was self-sacrificing. And so everything was getting laid at the altar of medicine. People will tell stories of how they missed their child's birth or how they didn't go to the bathroom for 25 hours, or whatever these things are that we held as badges of honors.
And what's happened, which has been amazing recently in medical education and in our practices, is we first acknowledge we are human. We are human beings with human needs and emotions and desires. And if we can attend to ourselves, we're actually in a better place to attend to others.
CATHY WURZER: How does the Center for Art in Medicine do that at the U?
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: We hold space. I think that has been our biggest role at the University. We hold space for physicians to start exploring storytelling in their practices. We're highly integrated into curriculum. And so we're actually really probably a center of excellence in how you integrate the humanities and narrative medicine and storytelling into medical students' formation and their professional identity formation.
Really, it's a skill. So we're also really good at skill building and community connections around those things.
CATHY WURZER: You've been working with the podcast, The Nocturnists, which I love to organize this live storytelling events.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: I love it.
CATHY WURZER: I know. I know. It's coming up Saturday, in Minneapolis. And the theme is rebirth.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: It is.
CATHY WURZER: So tell us about this.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: Well, it makes sense. When we were brainstorming themes-- it lands on Earth Day-- and so this idea of rebirth came out of that. But also, as we've been dealing with the COVID pandemic, many of us, as an organization, as individuals, have had to rethink and rebirth how we approach medicine, how we approach our practices, how we integrate our lives into our practices.
And so the storytellers are phenomenal! I cannot wait for people to hear the work they've been doing, and exploring all the different ways in which we go through a rebirthing process.
CATHY WURZER: OK. So I know there are seven storytellers.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: Yes.
CATHY WURZER: Five are from Minnesota. But I'm curious about how the stories work with HIPAA, the HIPAA rules and patient privacy.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: I feel like I'm on one of on-the-job trainings, Cathy.
CATHY WURZER: Sorry.
[LAUGHTER]
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: That's OK. We don't violate any-- so it turns out actually, a lot of the stories are about the storyteller. So they're telling their stories. Again, this idea of humanizing the physician. So that's part of it.
And then, whenever they do share patients' stories or there's an interaction with patients, we're very careful to maintain privacy, either by de-personalizing it so it's not identifiable or by seeking consent.
CATHY WURZER: So you get to see your doctor as a human being, with their own lives and struggles, in a sense.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: Isn't that amazing?
CATHY WURZER: Yeah, I know. Which I would bet probably make some docs be sweaty-palmed. Because you also want to see your doctor as strong and being a decisive individual. And I bet that that's hard for some doctors.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: It's actually an unlearning or a relearning we as a society have to do-- as a broader society and we as physicians. You know, I am not separate from community. I shop at Target. My kids go to school. The laws that are passed by the city council affect me.
So this idea of reintegrating ourselves into community-- and that also allows the community to really show up for physicians in different ways.
I can tell you story after story of where my patients saw me as human and how much that bolstered me in my practice and how much it helped sustain me during times when the work was very hard.
CATHY WURZER: I had a good friend who died of ALS. And he said, if my doctor can't cry with me, they're worthless to me. So he concentrated on physicians that actually were human and could show the full spectrum of their humanity.
So if someone wants to go to this event, how do they do this?
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: Well, we are on the Parkway website. You can get tickets that way. Through Eventbrite as well. And hopefully, you'll put it in the show notes, Cathy, so that they can get it that way, too.
CATHY WURZER: I would be happy to do that, Doctor. Thank you. I will see you there, as a matter of fact. I appreciate your time. Thank you.
TSEGANESH SELAMEAB: Oh, wonderful. We'll be very excited to see you. Thank you so much.
CATHY WURZER: We'll talk to you soon. Dr. Tseganesh Selameab has been with us. She is a primary care doctor in St. Paul. She is the associate director of the Center for Art in medicine at the U, which is co-hosting an evening of medical storytelling with The Nocturnists podcast Saturday, Parkway Theater, in Minneapolis. It's at 7 o'clock.
Thanks for being with us here on Minnesota Now, from NPR News.
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