With the future of rideshare in Minneapolis in limbo, state lawmakers revise a bill vetoed last year
Rideshare driver Farhan Badel pulls up a job on the Lyft driver app, displaying a $7 fee for a ride from downtown Minneapolis to Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport, during his shift on March 28.
Ben Hovland | MPR News
The future of Uber and Lyft is in limbo in Minneapolis. The city has until the end of the month to find a compromise in hopes of keeping the rideshare companies in the city. They have threatened to pull out of part or all of the metro on May 1 after the city raised minimum wage for drivers. At the same time, the state is looking at its own wage proposal.
Thursday morning, a bill that would guarantee wages and legal protections for rideshare drivers in Minnesota passed the House Judiciary Committee. The bill is a revised version of one vetoed by Gov. Tim Walz last year after Uber and Lyft threatened to pull out of the entire state.
For more on the new rideshare bill, MPR News host Cathy Wurzer talked with coauthor Mohamud Noor, a DFL state representative from the Twin Cities.
Use the audio player above to listen to the full conversation.
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Audio transcript
CATHY WURZER: The future of Uber and Lyft is in limbo in Minneapolis. The city has until the end of the month to find a compromise in hopes of keeping the rideshare companies in the city. Uber and Lyft are threatening to pull out of Minneapolis on May 1 after the city raised minimum wages for drivers. At the same time, the state is looking at raising the minimum wage for drivers. This morning, a bill that would guarantee wages and legal protections for rideshare drivers in Minnesota passed the House Judiciary Committee.
This bill is a revised version of one vetoed by Governor Walz last year after Uber and Lyft threatened to pull out of the entire state. DFL State Representative Mohamud Noor is the co-author of the revised rideshare bill. He joins us right now. Representative, thanks for your time.
MOHAMUD NOOR: Thank you for having me, Cathy.
CATHY WURZER: What changes have you made to the bill since last year?
MOHAMUD NOOR: Quite frankly, I think when the governor, Governor Walz, Executive Order 2307 was created, it allowed us to look into issues like pay compensation, transparency, and the impact of what the drivers are earning and the impact of rideshare-- folks who use Uber and Lyft will have on the pay increases and the pay fairness also for the drivers. So technically, what we have seen is what the drivers have been telling us have been validated by this study and the report that was issued by the Department of Labor and Industry. And there are 24 recommendations that came out of that task force.
So we're looking into that. And the bill that we have actually reflects what the task force's recommendations were. And that's the big difference between what we had last session and what we have this session.
CATHY WURZER: We were listening to testimony. It sounds like the rideshare companies have some issues with part of the bill that allows drivers to sue the company for wrongful termination. We'd like to play a little bit of audio right now. This is Joel Carlson, a lobbyist for Uber, at this morning's hearing.
JOEL CARLSON: The issue of a private right of action was offered at the task force. And it was rejected as a negotiated issue that that is not how we're going to, for the first time, allow a private right of action to enforce an independent contractor situation.
CATHY WURZER: It sounds like Uber is really not willing to go along with this, Representative. Do you keep pushing for private right of action in this bill?
MOHAMUD NOOR: We're still having conversations with the stakeholders. I think as the-- as I referenced the executive order, it clearly shows there was a conversation on specific discussions with all the stakeholders. We're doing that. And quite frankly, the bill references Chapter 181, which provides a different set of relief to the individuals impacted. We're looking at pay transparency. We're looking at the deactivation. We are also looking at the minimum compensation. So providing that minimum protection requires us to continue to have the conversation.
What are the remedies that a driver of a TNC can have to make sure that they're-- they can hold the TNC accountable for their rights? And that's exactly what we're doing here. And I think we're still having that conversation with the TNC and also all the stakeholders.
CATHY WURZER: See, I'm a little confused, and possibly other people are too. If the bill passes, will it supersede anything in Minneapolis, the Minneapolis Rideshare Ordinance?
MOHAMUD NOOR: The bill that we have does not supersede what the Minneapolis ordinance is doing. So this is just a statewide effort to make sure that there is a minimum compensation, there's a fair pay for the drivers. And I think the report that shows the pay rate in the metro area, which is from the governor's perspective-- the report, I think, he talked about, showed that there is a significant difference of what we passed last year and what the city passed. So we're still having that conversation.
It's $1.21 if you look at that report and $0.49 per minute. And so that shows that there's a gap in between. We're still having conversations. What is a fair pay to the driver to make sure that they're getting paid what they deserve?
CATHY WURZER: I remember drivers were so disappointed last session when the governor vetoed the first-- the original bill. Do you think that you have crafted the bill, that it will be signed now by the governor?
MOHAMUD NOOR: I hope so. I think that is something that we're all aspiring to. And in fact, making sure that the executive branch is involved-- we've been having conversations not only with legislators but also the commissioners from DLI and also Commerce to make sure that we have a bill that everyone agrees with and also making sure that the drivers are paid fair compensation.
CATHY WURZER: All right. I know you're busy. Thank you, Representative, for your time today.
MOHAMUD NOOR: Appreciate that. Thank you so much.
CATHY WURZER: We've been talking to DFL State Representative Mohamud Noor, a co-author of the rideshare bill currently moving through the Minnesota House.
Well, as I mentioned, Uber and Lyft are threatening to pull out of the Twin Cities by May 1 because of the rideshare ordinance in Minneapolis. Next week, the Minneapolis City Council could reconsider the ordinance. Yesterday, rideshare giant Lyft suggested a pay rate compromise. Now, all this uncertainty is leaving drivers wondering how to make a living and what comes next. Sarah Thamer introduces us to one of them.
FARHAN BADEL: Hello.
SARA THAMER: Farhan Badel has been driving for Uber and Lyft in Minneapolis since 2018.
FARHAN BADEL: Usually I start at 4:30 AM, 5:00 AM.
SARA THAMER: He says more than half his trips are to the airport, with other destinations scattered in between.
FARHAN BADEL: So in downtown, you're taking people from the hotel to the job sites, the workplaces, taking people-- some people to the hospital.
SARA THAMER: His work for Uber and Lyft helps him support his three children and wife. He says, with an increase in gas prices and cost of living, it's harder to make ends meet.
FARHAN BADEL: So like today, four hours, $54, right, for four hours worth of work. And a lot of times people forget that, half of our time, we're sitting in our cars, waiting for a ride.
SARA THAMER: The Minneapolis City Council backed drivers like Badel by passing an ordinance to improve driver pay. Mayor Jacob Frey is asking the city council to reconsider. If the council's action stands, Uber and Lyft promise to end services within weeks, leaving Badel and other drivers to explore roads less traveled, driving for startup rideshare apps.
[TYPING ON KEYBOARD]
At his home office in Woodbury, Murid Amini has been working around the clock since early March, developing MOOV, a rideshare app which he says already has 900 users signed up. Around 600 are drivers.
MURID AMINI: So my goal is to have at least 1,000 but closer to 2,000 drivers ready to go by May 1.
SARA THAMER: An immigrant from Afghanistan, Amini has a background in software development and corporate strategy. He says the app will offer a similar experience to Uber and Lyft, where riders can request a ride. The difference, Amini says drivers would earn a larger portion of the fare. Amini doesn't have a strong stance on the $15.57 minimum wage that drivers are fighting for. He wants to find a middle ground for drivers to earn a livable wage and for riders to have affordable rates.
MURID AMINI: My goal is to say, you can't bully an entire metro area and risk people's livelihoods and their ability to commute just because you have an app. And it's not super-difficult to build an app.
SARA THAMER: He's not the only one. Other rideshare companies are also looking for ways to fill the possible void, including Hitch and the Drivers Cooperative or Co-op Ride, which was recently in town from New York to help sign drivers up for a Minnesota co-op. They'd need a Transportation Network Company License to operate. City officials say three companies have applied for TNC licensing so far, including MOOV.
Farhan Badel has already signed up for a couple of other rideshare apps. The 34-year-old immigrant from Somalia owns his car. Other drivers who rent may find more roadblocks along the way. At least one rental car company is asking Uber and Lyft drivers to return their cars.
FARHAN BADEL: If I can use my voice for a change to help my other brother live an honest living, earn a minimum wage, provide food on the table, that's the very minimum that I can do.
SARA THAMER: The Minneapolis City Council plans to reconsider the ordinance on April 11. Sarah Thamer, MPR News, Minneapolis.
This bill is a revised version of one vetoed by Governor Walz last year after Uber and Lyft threatened to pull out of the entire state. DFL State Representative Mohamud Noor is the co-author of the revised rideshare bill. He joins us right now. Representative, thanks for your time.
MOHAMUD NOOR: Thank you for having me, Cathy.
CATHY WURZER: What changes have you made to the bill since last year?
MOHAMUD NOOR: Quite frankly, I think when the governor, Governor Walz, Executive Order 2307 was created, it allowed us to look into issues like pay compensation, transparency, and the impact of what the drivers are earning and the impact of rideshare-- folks who use Uber and Lyft will have on the pay increases and the pay fairness also for the drivers. So technically, what we have seen is what the drivers have been telling us have been validated by this study and the report that was issued by the Department of Labor and Industry. And there are 24 recommendations that came out of that task force.
So we're looking into that. And the bill that we have actually reflects what the task force's recommendations were. And that's the big difference between what we had last session and what we have this session.
CATHY WURZER: We were listening to testimony. It sounds like the rideshare companies have some issues with part of the bill that allows drivers to sue the company for wrongful termination. We'd like to play a little bit of audio right now. This is Joel Carlson, a lobbyist for Uber, at this morning's hearing.
JOEL CARLSON: The issue of a private right of action was offered at the task force. And it was rejected as a negotiated issue that that is not how we're going to, for the first time, allow a private right of action to enforce an independent contractor situation.
CATHY WURZER: It sounds like Uber is really not willing to go along with this, Representative. Do you keep pushing for private right of action in this bill?
MOHAMUD NOOR: We're still having conversations with the stakeholders. I think as the-- as I referenced the executive order, it clearly shows there was a conversation on specific discussions with all the stakeholders. We're doing that. And quite frankly, the bill references Chapter 181, which provides a different set of relief to the individuals impacted. We're looking at pay transparency. We're looking at the deactivation. We are also looking at the minimum compensation. So providing that minimum protection requires us to continue to have the conversation.
What are the remedies that a driver of a TNC can have to make sure that they're-- they can hold the TNC accountable for their rights? And that's exactly what we're doing here. And I think we're still having that conversation with the TNC and also all the stakeholders.
CATHY WURZER: See, I'm a little confused, and possibly other people are too. If the bill passes, will it supersede anything in Minneapolis, the Minneapolis Rideshare Ordinance?
MOHAMUD NOOR: The bill that we have does not supersede what the Minneapolis ordinance is doing. So this is just a statewide effort to make sure that there is a minimum compensation, there's a fair pay for the drivers. And I think the report that shows the pay rate in the metro area, which is from the governor's perspective-- the report, I think, he talked about, showed that there is a significant difference of what we passed last year and what the city passed. So we're still having that conversation.
It's $1.21 if you look at that report and $0.49 per minute. And so that shows that there's a gap in between. We're still having conversations. What is a fair pay to the driver to make sure that they're getting paid what they deserve?
CATHY WURZER: I remember drivers were so disappointed last session when the governor vetoed the first-- the original bill. Do you think that you have crafted the bill, that it will be signed now by the governor?
MOHAMUD NOOR: I hope so. I think that is something that we're all aspiring to. And in fact, making sure that the executive branch is involved-- we've been having conversations not only with legislators but also the commissioners from DLI and also Commerce to make sure that we have a bill that everyone agrees with and also making sure that the drivers are paid fair compensation.
CATHY WURZER: All right. I know you're busy. Thank you, Representative, for your time today.
MOHAMUD NOOR: Appreciate that. Thank you so much.
CATHY WURZER: We've been talking to DFL State Representative Mohamud Noor, a co-author of the rideshare bill currently moving through the Minnesota House.
Well, as I mentioned, Uber and Lyft are threatening to pull out of the Twin Cities by May 1 because of the rideshare ordinance in Minneapolis. Next week, the Minneapolis City Council could reconsider the ordinance. Yesterday, rideshare giant Lyft suggested a pay rate compromise. Now, all this uncertainty is leaving drivers wondering how to make a living and what comes next. Sarah Thamer introduces us to one of them.
FARHAN BADEL: Hello.
SARA THAMER: Farhan Badel has been driving for Uber and Lyft in Minneapolis since 2018.
FARHAN BADEL: Usually I start at 4:30 AM, 5:00 AM.
SARA THAMER: He says more than half his trips are to the airport, with other destinations scattered in between.
FARHAN BADEL: So in downtown, you're taking people from the hotel to the job sites, the workplaces, taking people-- some people to the hospital.
SARA THAMER: His work for Uber and Lyft helps him support his three children and wife. He says, with an increase in gas prices and cost of living, it's harder to make ends meet.
FARHAN BADEL: So like today, four hours, $54, right, for four hours worth of work. And a lot of times people forget that, half of our time, we're sitting in our cars, waiting for a ride.
SARA THAMER: The Minneapolis City Council backed drivers like Badel by passing an ordinance to improve driver pay. Mayor Jacob Frey is asking the city council to reconsider. If the council's action stands, Uber and Lyft promise to end services within weeks, leaving Badel and other drivers to explore roads less traveled, driving for startup rideshare apps.
[TYPING ON KEYBOARD]
At his home office in Woodbury, Murid Amini has been working around the clock since early March, developing MOOV, a rideshare app which he says already has 900 users signed up. Around 600 are drivers.
MURID AMINI: So my goal is to have at least 1,000 but closer to 2,000 drivers ready to go by May 1.
SARA THAMER: An immigrant from Afghanistan, Amini has a background in software development and corporate strategy. He says the app will offer a similar experience to Uber and Lyft, where riders can request a ride. The difference, Amini says drivers would earn a larger portion of the fare. Amini doesn't have a strong stance on the $15.57 minimum wage that drivers are fighting for. He wants to find a middle ground for drivers to earn a livable wage and for riders to have affordable rates.
MURID AMINI: My goal is to say, you can't bully an entire metro area and risk people's livelihoods and their ability to commute just because you have an app. And it's not super-difficult to build an app.
SARA THAMER: He's not the only one. Other rideshare companies are also looking for ways to fill the possible void, including Hitch and the Drivers Cooperative or Co-op Ride, which was recently in town from New York to help sign drivers up for a Minnesota co-op. They'd need a Transportation Network Company License to operate. City officials say three companies have applied for TNC licensing so far, including MOOV.
Farhan Badel has already signed up for a couple of other rideshare apps. The 34-year-old immigrant from Somalia owns his car. Other drivers who rent may find more roadblocks along the way. At least one rental car company is asking Uber and Lyft drivers to return their cars.
FARHAN BADEL: If I can use my voice for a change to help my other brother live an honest living, earn a minimum wage, provide food on the table, that's the very minimum that I can do.
SARA THAMER: The Minneapolis City Council plans to reconsider the ordinance on April 11. Sarah Thamer, MPR News, Minneapolis.
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