Sen. Smith says passage of Trump's big bill will be 'disaster' for Minnesotans
Sen. Tina Smith, D-Minn., speaks during a confirmation hearing at the Capitol in Washington, Jan. 29.
Jose Luis Magana | AP
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Audio transcript
[MUSIC PLAYING] NINA MOINI: It's our top story this afternoon. The US Senate is nearing its self-imposed July 4 deadline to vote on President Donald Trump's proposal of tax breaks and spending cuts. It's what he's calling the One Big Beautiful Bill Act, and senators are on the floor in Washington right now and expected to spend the entire day hearing amendments and voting.
On the line from Washington to explain is Democratic US Senator Tina Smith. Senator Smith, thank you for your time this afternoon.
TINA SMITH: Thank you so much, Nina. I'm glad to be with you.
NINA MOINI: I'm glad to have you. Would you paint us a picture of what exactly is happening in the Senate today? What is your day looking like?
TINA SMITH: Yeah, so I'm here in my small office in the basement of the Capitol, and I'm going back and forth to the floor voting on amendments. Most of the amendments are being offered by Democrats, and what we are trying to do is to fix this terrible bill so that it isn't taking away health insurance from millions of Americans, that it is not raising costs for Americans in order to give big tax cuts to very, very wealthy people and big corporations.
And what's interesting about this is that though the Republicans who want this bill are pushing it, two Republicans are voting against it, and all we need are two more to vote against it, and we will be able to stop this from happening. And I can tell you, it will be a disaster for many, many people in Minnesota, a disaster for rural hospitals in Minnesota, a real problem for many working families, and that's why we're trying so hard to stop it today.
NINA MOINI: What is your biggest concern? Because, I mean, this is more than 900-page bill that we're talking about here with implications over several years. What's your biggest concern, you think, when you're looking at it?
TINA SMITH: Well, I think my biggest concern is how this bill would take away health insurance, both from people who get their health insurance through Medicaid as well as making it a lot harder for people to buy insurance through the Affordable Care Act, how it is taking away that health insurance, basically in order to pay for these ongoing big tax breaks that are disproportionately going to people that are already doing really well in our country. And that seems to me to be fundamentally unfair.
And, of course, I'm very worried about what happens next when people lose their health insurance because we're not here saying, oh, you won't get sick or we're going to reform the system. All we're doing is we're saying we're not going to pay for that health insurance anymore, and that just means that those costs are going to be shifted onto families and onto rural hospitals and into emergency rooms, and a lot of people will just not be able to get the health care that they need.
NINA MOINI: You mentioned, Senator, that you would need two votes from the Democrats or from the Republican side to move forward and that there are these amendments. Are you confident that any of the amendments that Democrats are putting forth will be passed and that those two votes might come through, or do you think it's pretty much going to pass?
TINA SMITH: Well, I think it's an uphill battle. I'm not naive about that. I'm realistic about the challenges of getting just two more Republicans to vote with us, but I think you have to try, and you have to make the argument and make the case. And I can tell you that whether you live in a Democratic state, a state that's sent a Democrat to the United States Senate, or a state that sent a Republican to the United States Senate, working people in all of those states are still going to be the ones paying the price for this bill when it passes. And so I don't have the power to cause people to vote the way I want them to vote, but I do have a lot of power to speak out, and that's what I'm doing right now.
NINA MOINI: I think it's hard for people to conceptualize some of the facts and figures that are floating around. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office reported that if the bill is passed as it is now, almost 12 million Americans would be uninsured over the next 10 years. Who are those Americans, and how do you begin to explain to people what that actually looks like? Because those are pretty staggering numbers, but it's hard to imagine how that would unfold.
TINA SMITH: It's such a great point. We talk about these giant numbers, and it's hard to put them into context. And I will just note that over the last day or so as Senate Republicans have made additional changes to this bill, the latest estimates are that more like nearly 20 million people will be losing their health insurance. So it's getting worse and not better.
But what I try to do, if you think about what this really means in Minnesota-- 327,000 Minnesotans estimated are going to lose their health insurance. What does that mean? Often, it is people who are veterans, seniors who rely on Medicaid as well as Medicare to pay for their care. It means people who are in nursing homes, and it means moms and kids, dads and kids. A lot of people who get their health insurance through Medicaid are already working, and, in fact, some of them are working more than one job. They're working two jobs, but their income isn't high enough, nor do their employers provide health insurance. And so Medicaid is there to make sure that they and their children can get the health care that they need.
Another thing that I think is so telling is that Medicaid is the number-one way that people in this country and in Minnesota get health care for mental health care. And so when you lose that, you can imagine the ripple effects that that is going to have through people's lives and their families and also our entire community.
NINA MOINI: You mentioned some amendments put forth by Democrats. I should mention, too, we've invited Republican members of our congressional delegation to come on. We want to hear from them. We hope that we will. Many Republicans are touting things like increasing the child tax credit or the no tax on tips portion, which were big topics during the 2024 election cycle and promises from President Trump. From your perspective, what are better ways to tackle the US debt?
TINA SMITH: Yeah, well, so first, I want to say that I am in favor of lower taxes for middle-class families and working families, and I support increasing the child tax credit, which is a huge help to families. But, of course, what the Republicans don't tell you is that the vast majority of the tax benefits in this bill are going to the wealthiest. And, in fact, this sort of sticks in my mind. People who have incomes of over $2.8 million are getting hundreds of thousands of tax breaks, while families that earn $51,000 or $52,000 or less actually will see their costs go up because of this bill. So that just strikes me as being unfair and not what we would want to do.
And, of course, as you say, this bill is adding, by most recent estimates, nearly $5 trillion to the federal deficit, and that's going to cost all of us because it means higher interest rates for a mortgage or for borrowing, buying a car, and that affects small businesses as well as families.
NINA MOINI: I want to make sure we can touch on immigration, too, for a moment, Senator. The bill takes on, of course, the US immigration system, proposes roughly $150 billion go toward immigration enforcement, hiring more law enforcement, funding detention centers, and continuing building a wall at the Mexican border. The current budget for Immigration and Customs Enforcement is about $10 billion, I understand. Do you think that that's necessary spending?
TINA SMITH: Well, I strongly support good border security. And I think, though, that many of the spending in this bill is misguided. For example, I think it has billions and billions of dollars for a border wall, which we know is not a good way of providing border security. What we should be doing is spending more money for immigration judges and ways to process people's immigration claims in a fair way, and we should be respecting that everybody deserves due process.
And I can tell you, it's interesting in Minnesota. I hear from people across the political spectrum who are so disturbed by these images of parents being arrested and hauled away by masked ICE enforcement agents right in front of their children when they show up for an immigration hearing, and I don't think that kind of cruelty and callousness is what most Americans want to see.
NINA MOINI: As things stand right now, do you think this bill can pass? Do you think that lawmakers will meet that sort of self-imposed, let's get this done by July 4? Republicans seem really confident that it could be wrapped up as soon as today in the Senate and then just sort of signed off on in the House. What do you think?
TINA SMITH: Well, I think it remains to be seen. As I said, I'm a realist. I wonder whether the Republicans don't have the votes to push this through, but we'll see. That's why we go through this long, long, long amendment process. And we voted on maybe half a dozen amendments so far, and I expect we'll vote on dozens more before this is over.
And then as you say, the bill is very changed from what the House passed just a few weeks ago. And, in fact, in some ways, it's much worse. So we'll see what the House does with that. I hope that we can just make this as hard as possible to get done for them.
NINA MOINI: And if it does pass-- just last question, Senator-- then what is next from your perspective and that of your party?
TINA SMITH: Well, I think that the accountability that will happen as people realize how damaging this bill is to their communities and their families and their lives. Well, people will be able to start to see it in real time. And I will be immediately going out, and just one thing I'll be doing is immediately going out and talking to Minnesota's rural hospitals who have told me that if these Medicaid cuts go through, it's not a question of if they close their doors. It's a question of when. And I'll be doing everything I can to help support them.
NINA MOINI: Senator Smith, thank you very much for your time this afternoon.
TINA SMITH: Thank you so much.
NINA MOINI: That was US Senator Tina Smith.
On the line from Washington to explain is Democratic US Senator Tina Smith. Senator Smith, thank you for your time this afternoon.
TINA SMITH: Thank you so much, Nina. I'm glad to be with you.
NINA MOINI: I'm glad to have you. Would you paint us a picture of what exactly is happening in the Senate today? What is your day looking like?
TINA SMITH: Yeah, so I'm here in my small office in the basement of the Capitol, and I'm going back and forth to the floor voting on amendments. Most of the amendments are being offered by Democrats, and what we are trying to do is to fix this terrible bill so that it isn't taking away health insurance from millions of Americans, that it is not raising costs for Americans in order to give big tax cuts to very, very wealthy people and big corporations.
And what's interesting about this is that though the Republicans who want this bill are pushing it, two Republicans are voting against it, and all we need are two more to vote against it, and we will be able to stop this from happening. And I can tell you, it will be a disaster for many, many people in Minnesota, a disaster for rural hospitals in Minnesota, a real problem for many working families, and that's why we're trying so hard to stop it today.
NINA MOINI: What is your biggest concern? Because, I mean, this is more than 900-page bill that we're talking about here with implications over several years. What's your biggest concern, you think, when you're looking at it?
TINA SMITH: Well, I think my biggest concern is how this bill would take away health insurance, both from people who get their health insurance through Medicaid as well as making it a lot harder for people to buy insurance through the Affordable Care Act, how it is taking away that health insurance, basically in order to pay for these ongoing big tax breaks that are disproportionately going to people that are already doing really well in our country. And that seems to me to be fundamentally unfair.
And, of course, I'm very worried about what happens next when people lose their health insurance because we're not here saying, oh, you won't get sick or we're going to reform the system. All we're doing is we're saying we're not going to pay for that health insurance anymore, and that just means that those costs are going to be shifted onto families and onto rural hospitals and into emergency rooms, and a lot of people will just not be able to get the health care that they need.
NINA MOINI: You mentioned, Senator, that you would need two votes from the Democrats or from the Republican side to move forward and that there are these amendments. Are you confident that any of the amendments that Democrats are putting forth will be passed and that those two votes might come through, or do you think it's pretty much going to pass?
TINA SMITH: Well, I think it's an uphill battle. I'm not naive about that. I'm realistic about the challenges of getting just two more Republicans to vote with us, but I think you have to try, and you have to make the argument and make the case. And I can tell you that whether you live in a Democratic state, a state that's sent a Democrat to the United States Senate, or a state that sent a Republican to the United States Senate, working people in all of those states are still going to be the ones paying the price for this bill when it passes. And so I don't have the power to cause people to vote the way I want them to vote, but I do have a lot of power to speak out, and that's what I'm doing right now.
NINA MOINI: I think it's hard for people to conceptualize some of the facts and figures that are floating around. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office reported that if the bill is passed as it is now, almost 12 million Americans would be uninsured over the next 10 years. Who are those Americans, and how do you begin to explain to people what that actually looks like? Because those are pretty staggering numbers, but it's hard to imagine how that would unfold.
TINA SMITH: It's such a great point. We talk about these giant numbers, and it's hard to put them into context. And I will just note that over the last day or so as Senate Republicans have made additional changes to this bill, the latest estimates are that more like nearly 20 million people will be losing their health insurance. So it's getting worse and not better.
But what I try to do, if you think about what this really means in Minnesota-- 327,000 Minnesotans estimated are going to lose their health insurance. What does that mean? Often, it is people who are veterans, seniors who rely on Medicaid as well as Medicare to pay for their care. It means people who are in nursing homes, and it means moms and kids, dads and kids. A lot of people who get their health insurance through Medicaid are already working, and, in fact, some of them are working more than one job. They're working two jobs, but their income isn't high enough, nor do their employers provide health insurance. And so Medicaid is there to make sure that they and their children can get the health care that they need.
Another thing that I think is so telling is that Medicaid is the number-one way that people in this country and in Minnesota get health care for mental health care. And so when you lose that, you can imagine the ripple effects that that is going to have through people's lives and their families and also our entire community.
NINA MOINI: You mentioned some amendments put forth by Democrats. I should mention, too, we've invited Republican members of our congressional delegation to come on. We want to hear from them. We hope that we will. Many Republicans are touting things like increasing the child tax credit or the no tax on tips portion, which were big topics during the 2024 election cycle and promises from President Trump. From your perspective, what are better ways to tackle the US debt?
TINA SMITH: Yeah, well, so first, I want to say that I am in favor of lower taxes for middle-class families and working families, and I support increasing the child tax credit, which is a huge help to families. But, of course, what the Republicans don't tell you is that the vast majority of the tax benefits in this bill are going to the wealthiest. And, in fact, this sort of sticks in my mind. People who have incomes of over $2.8 million are getting hundreds of thousands of tax breaks, while families that earn $51,000 or $52,000 or less actually will see their costs go up because of this bill. So that just strikes me as being unfair and not what we would want to do.
And, of course, as you say, this bill is adding, by most recent estimates, nearly $5 trillion to the federal deficit, and that's going to cost all of us because it means higher interest rates for a mortgage or for borrowing, buying a car, and that affects small businesses as well as families.
NINA MOINI: I want to make sure we can touch on immigration, too, for a moment, Senator. The bill takes on, of course, the US immigration system, proposes roughly $150 billion go toward immigration enforcement, hiring more law enforcement, funding detention centers, and continuing building a wall at the Mexican border. The current budget for Immigration and Customs Enforcement is about $10 billion, I understand. Do you think that that's necessary spending?
TINA SMITH: Well, I strongly support good border security. And I think, though, that many of the spending in this bill is misguided. For example, I think it has billions and billions of dollars for a border wall, which we know is not a good way of providing border security. What we should be doing is spending more money for immigration judges and ways to process people's immigration claims in a fair way, and we should be respecting that everybody deserves due process.
And I can tell you, it's interesting in Minnesota. I hear from people across the political spectrum who are so disturbed by these images of parents being arrested and hauled away by masked ICE enforcement agents right in front of their children when they show up for an immigration hearing, and I don't think that kind of cruelty and callousness is what most Americans want to see.
NINA MOINI: As things stand right now, do you think this bill can pass? Do you think that lawmakers will meet that sort of self-imposed, let's get this done by July 4? Republicans seem really confident that it could be wrapped up as soon as today in the Senate and then just sort of signed off on in the House. What do you think?
TINA SMITH: Well, I think it remains to be seen. As I said, I'm a realist. I wonder whether the Republicans don't have the votes to push this through, but we'll see. That's why we go through this long, long, long amendment process. And we voted on maybe half a dozen amendments so far, and I expect we'll vote on dozens more before this is over.
And then as you say, the bill is very changed from what the House passed just a few weeks ago. And, in fact, in some ways, it's much worse. So we'll see what the House does with that. I hope that we can just make this as hard as possible to get done for them.
NINA MOINI: And if it does pass-- just last question, Senator-- then what is next from your perspective and that of your party?
TINA SMITH: Well, I think that the accountability that will happen as people realize how damaging this bill is to their communities and their families and their lives. Well, people will be able to start to see it in real time. And I will be immediately going out, and just one thing I'll be doing is immediately going out and talking to Minnesota's rural hospitals who have told me that if these Medicaid cuts go through, it's not a question of if they close their doors. It's a question of when. And I'll be doing everything I can to help support them.
NINA MOINI: Senator Smith, thank you very much for your time this afternoon.
TINA SMITH: Thank you so much.
NINA MOINI: That was US Senator Tina Smith.
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