The FBI says Annunciation mass shooting was a hate crime. An expert breaks down what that means

NINA MOINI: State and federal investigators are still reviewing the facts surrounding the Annunciation School and Church shooting last Wednesday. Some local and national leaders have used the terms "hate crime" and "domestic terrorism" to describe the shooter's attack on students and churchgoers last week. FBI Director Kash Patel said the shooting will be investigated as an anti-Catholic hate crime. Things may be more complicated than that since the specifics around the shooter's motives are not yet clear.

Here to explain how officials might look at defining the crime and why they might do so is Jessica Hodge. She's a professor of Justice and Society Studies at the University of St. Thomas. Professor Hodge, thanks for your time this afternoon.

JESSICA HODGE: Thank you for having me.

NINA MOINI: This isn't the first time an incident like this has happened. And there's been a lot of debate about talking about what is a hate crime and what is it legally versus just how people feel about it. Would you describe or define for us what constitutes a hate crime, I guess, at the legal level?

JESSICA HODGE: Sure. Yes, what classifies as a hate crime, it really comes down to the motive, what the agenda was motivating the incident or the attack. Hate crimes are typically under the jurisdiction of the state. States have their own statutes in place to address hate crimes. And these statutes vary by state. For example, many states like Minnesota have what we call a penalty enhancement statute that outlines how someone may receive an enhanced penalty if they are found guilty of a crime motivated by hate.

And under the different state statutes, different categories, specific categories are included as protected categories. And these categories also vary by state. These may include identities such as race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, disability, et cetera.

NINA MOINI: So you're talking about the state level. But the FBI director has weighed in and also used the term "domestic terrorism." Would you describe what that is and what the role of the federal versus the state government would be?

JESSICA HODGE: Yeah, absolutely. So it's a great question. Again, it really does come down to the motive of the attack. But that line is not always clear. And so what we have to look at is whether or not there was some form of political or ideological agenda motivating that attack.

For example, as I mentioned on hate crimes, typically, those incidences or those cases are dealt with under the jurisdiction of the state. Terrorism, on the other hand, is generally a federal manner and is defined within the US code. And these acts are dealt with through various federal statutes, for example, related to weapons, conspiracy, et cetera. And these acts, as they're defined, are dangerous to human life, that are a violation of criminal laws, and appear to be intended to intimidate or coerce civilians or influence government policy or actions.

NINA MOINI: OK. That's helpful. Thank you so much. So the suspect in this case, though, is dead. Why or how would investigators continue to look into this, even though there is not one person to charge? Perhaps there could be others.

JESSICA HODGE: Oh, sure. And that's part of the reason why they will continue this investigation, even though this particular suspect is deceased. So no criminal charges would be filed against this specific defendant. There are other legal actions that might come out of a further investigation. So they'll continue to establish what happened in this case, which also can help potentially bring closure to victims and families and whole communities.

But I think, too, there's a larger impact when we name-- even when a suspect of a particular case might be deceased, and no charges might be pursued, there's a larger impact by still looking at these cases particularly as a hate crime case, to see if that is applicable, because there is a symbolic effect for naming an act as a hate crime. Some refer to that as what we call the symbolic justice. In other words, calling an act a hate crime affirms the harms done to the victim and the targeted community and helps to uplift the values that we hope to see within our community, values of equality and dignity for all.

NINA MOINI: And I understand you also specialize in gender bias crimes. There's been a lot of discussion about the gender of the shooter, the gender identity. We know that after instances like this, sometimes entire communities will be targeted. Just what do you think, what's your perspective on the conversation around identities of shooters generally, no matter where they come from?

JESSICA HODGE: Sure. Yeah, that's always kind of an interesting perspective or kind of argument when we're looking at the identities of those who are involved with these types of cases. When we look at hate crimes specifically, these most often, these types of incidences are most often committed by individuals who identify as white.

And this is data that is not only coming from different research studies, different academic research that is done looking at these types of incidences, but also, more specifically, from data that is obtained from local and state police and then reported by the FBI through the Hate Crime Statistics Report. And what we know, generally, in these types of cases, is that they are generally white identified individuals for those that we identified as potential suspects. And of those, they're most often identified as male.

NINA MOINI: What do you do with data like that? I mean, how is that helpful, I guess?

JESSICA HODGE: Sure. No, that's a great question. For folks like myself who have tried to better understand the prevalence of hate crimes, why these types of crimes occur, what might we do to address this type of violence, the record keeping, simply being able to look at and examine the extent or prevalence of these types of acts, if we don't have that data, we don't have that research. We cannot properly address the issue.

But on a larger scale, a broader impact is that it creates public awareness. It really serves an educational function. It can highlight the serious nature of these types of crimes times and hopefully encourage some sort of action on a community or larger societal level to address the violence, and more specifically, the underlying issues connected to the violence.

NINA MOINI: So that ties into when parents of one of the victims who was still in the hospital were saying they want people to really study, really look into why this is such a problem in the US. What type of studies or what else would you think would be needed to make some headway here?

JESSICA HODGE: Oh, it's a great question. Much like Gillian mentioned from [? Hamlin ?] earlier, we are still just at the tip of the iceberg in really understanding and getting-- while we have the data, we need to be able to dive deeper into what are some of these causes, and how can we properly address this within the community? We need research supports and able to do that, further grant supports to be able to investigate these issues.

But what we do know is we need further crisis intervention, support services within schools, within local communities that are accessible to all. We need to prioritize policy changes, much like the parents were mentioning earlier.

And I think also, too, what we know and have an understanding from research is, we really need to recognize how the discourse or how some of the messaging that can come out of different political actors or different-- the individuals that have a large platform, how that speech can be really inflammatory and can really-- can impact individual actors on a local level.

NINA MOINI: OK. And just lastly, I wonder about if one case, the hate crime charges are added or elevated, does that set any type of a precedent? Do then prosecutors have to go back and say, well, we charge this case this way? Or is it on a very individual basis? What do you think about that?

JESSICA HODGE: Yeah, it's a great question, too. Prosecuting hate crimes is very challenging, which is why we often don't see that type of action taken in most cases. Now, it's a little bit different if they are very high profile or if the evidence is just very clear that an act was motivated by a particular prejudice or a particular bias towards the victim or a particular community. And that evidence can be shown up as particular writings, slurs that are used, just if it's very clear.

And so the goal or the benefit of pursuing a case can be that enhanced penalty, if that is applicable, if there is a defendant that might receive that particular penalty. But I think, too-- and there's some questions, too, if even a further enhanced penalty serves a real purpose for the individual. But again, I think it's that naming of the-- if it's pursued as a hate crime, it names it for the victim, it names it for the targeted community, and it helps us understand what resources are needed to hopefully prevent or eliminate further similar types of actions.

NINA MOINI: All right. Thank you very much for your time, Professor.

JESSICA HODGE: Thank you.

NINA MOINI: And I just want to mention we've been talking about some difficult things today. If you are worried about harming yourself or someone else, you can call or text 988 to talk with trained counselors who can help. Thanks, again, to Jessica Hodge, who's a professor of Justice and Society Studies at the University of St. Thomas.