Former Minneapolis Mayor Betsy Hodges shares 'startling' data on harassment faced by women mayors

NINA MOINI: A new poll out from the national group Mayors Innovation Project shows that female mayors face higher rates of harassment and violence than their male counterparts. Former Minneapolis Mayor Betsy Hodges helped to develop and facilitate the poll. She's here now to talk about its findings. Thank you so much for your time with us, Mayor. Really appreciate it.

BETSY HODGES: Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

NINA MOINI: For those who may not remember or live outside the Twin Cities, you were mayor from 2014 to 2018. I'm curious to know what made you want to take action to facilitate this poll and help to get this information out there.

BETSY HODGES: When I left office, I was a coach for a cohort of women mayors who were working on racial equity projects in their cities. And this was 2018. I had just left office. And as they were telling their stories of the challenges they were facing governing in general, let alone implementing the projects they were working on, I suddenly realized that not only did they all have similar stories to each other, but their stories were similar to mine, that some of the tactics and techniques and strategies that people use, the tools of sexism, basically, were being used against all of those women mayors in the same ways that they had been used against me.

And so I started talking to all the organizations I was part of and had worked with, saying, women mayors need a place to go to talk about what it's like to be a woman mayor. And the Mayors Innovation Project took me up on it. We created this study.

Mayor Chastity Wells from Kankakee, Illinois, facilitated focus groups with women mayors to ask them questions and get their stories. Because we were telling people it was happening to us. And we were getting the same response. You're hysterical. You're crazy. You're just trying to hide behind sexism as an excuse for X, Y, and Z, terrible thing about you as a person.

And so it's great that we now have this data in hand to show that most of us experience this. The tools of sexism are widely available. And they're used because they work. And they're being used against women mayors all the time.

NINA MOINI: Would you want to share just some of the numbers and the findings that most stuck out to you?

BETSY HODGES: The data that startled me most is that 8 out of 10 women mayors would recommend other women run for office. But the reason that's startling is because 29% of women face threats, compared to 19% of men. 41% of women mayors and women mayor candidates are sexually harassed, compared to 6% of men.

20% of women versus 10% of men mayors have, whether or not they're capable of doing the job, questioned while they're doing the job, because they are married or not married, because they have children or they don't have children. Women mayors get questioned all the time about whether or not they have the capacity to do the job. Those numbers are stark and startling.

NINA MOINI: Sometimes we hear about things anecdotally, or it's just something that everyone kind of knows is true. But then you have data to support it. And would you just talk about why having that data is so important? Because this actually comes obviously at a personal cost. But ultimately, it can cost the city. It can cost taxpayers and everybody.

BETSY HODGES: It takes a toll. That violence and those threats don't come out of nowhere. It's the result of a slow burn sabotage of lawsuits and council power plays and daily pushback that make undermining women mayors feel normal long before it turns dangerous.

The threats come on social media, or in the mail, or directly-- in my case, directly to my face, or from a theater balcony when I'm alone on stage and I can't see a thing, but people are yelling. In that moment-- this was during MinnRoast in 2016-- the thought in my head was, I wonder if someone's going to shoot me right now.

Those moments take a toll. And those feel scary. But they're undergirded by months and years of frivolous lawsuits. I faced many frivolous lawsuits. You see example after example in our research of the council asking the city attorney if the mayor actually has the ability to do what the charter says the mayor has the ability to do or appoint these boards and commissions the way every mayor for 150 years has appointed them. But now that there's a woman in office, the question becomes, can she really appoint all these boards and commissions this way?

That daily grind, that takes a lot of time and attention from women mayors. And the irony is we do great work. It shows that we tend to support policies that are popular and actually get them done. But we have to do it facing all these headwinds of these tools that people who object to our agenda have to use against us successfully.

NINA MOINI: And when you're talking about those tools, it makes me think about the what's next from all of this research, this quote from you in an article in Politico. You say, "I don't know if America is ready to talk about the steps that are giving greater permission and room for violence." So that's some of what I'm hearing you talk about. What is your hope moving forward from this?

BETSY HODGES: One of the advantages to having this data available to us is that it is something outside any single woman mayor. This data is outside of her experience. And it says these experiences are happening across the board to women who are leading in these executive roles across our country.

So having the data in hand says, now we can advocate for policies that can protect women, prevent this harassment. And the good news is that security for women mayors is good for all mayors. The things and the policies and the investments we would make to make sure that women mayors are safe in their roles are investments that also make sure men mayors are staying safe in their roles.

But more than that, the invitation here is for the supporters of these women leaders to, 0ne, believe us when we say it's happening. Don't just dismiss it as overemotional, or hysterical, or insecure, or trying to divert attention away from something else.

Believe us when we say it. Learn to recognize it yourself. And then intervene. Join your voice with hers. Join your voice with other supporters of hers to say this is unacceptable behavior. And here's the data that shows it.

NINA MOINI: And 2018, when your term ended, was not that long ago. And I wonder if you think things have gotten worse or are beginning to improve because it's being talked about more. I mean, I think about here, as I'm sure you know-- I know are in DC area now. But in St. Paul we have our first woman mayor elected Kaohly Her.

At the same time, we've had these horrible, politically motivated assassinations happening of lawmakers. It seems like it's a scary time for people to want to serve. Yet I recall you saying early in our conversation that people are still encouraging one another to go out and do that. So I just wonder what your hope for the future is. Are you feeling optimistic?

BETSY HODGES: I'm always feeling optimistic because I believe in the power of the human heart and who we are as human beings. We get a lot socially and societally, a lot layered on top of who we are as human beings. And we can see that in that, right now, there's a lot of division, and there's a lot of divisiveness.

But when we get down to essentials about what we care about as human beings and what we care about as people and our ability to connect with each other, when we take advantage of that, the rifts are mended. And we're able to find ways to move forward together.

So I have a big belief in the power of our humanity over the power of-- the power games that are played with our socialization and our identities. So I'm a big believer in that. But we can see in this moment that there is a rift, that there is a divide, and that increasingly, it is harder for people to see each other as human.

It was very clear to me when I was being physically harassed and threatened by protesters-- it was very clear to me that they could not tell that I was a human being. I was an embodiment of positional power that they wanted to sway or have access to. I was not a human being to them in those moments. I could see that. And I could tell that. And that's part of the reason it was so scary.

And you're right. 79% of women mayors errors would say to other women, yes, run for office. This is worth doing. Our commitment to public service is so clear in that statistic alone. We would be real with each other about what we're going to face, but we also help each other.

The Women Mayors Network has been a great boon for the women mayors who participate because they have places to go with other people who understand what they're going through and can help them strategize.

But we shouldn't have to just rely on each other. We should be able to rely on our organizations and our systems to support us as well. Our democracy depends on it. Our democracy is unraveling right now.

And if we can find ways to give access to the genius of more people, women, mayors of color, our democracy is going to be better. And it is really important to note that the numbers for women, the data for women mayors was tough across the board. But it was especially tough for women mayors of color. If we're limiting women's desire to participate in our democracy, we're limiting the function of our democracy.

NINA MOINI: Just lastly, Mayor Hodges, what can constituents do? And what is the responsibility upon constituents?

BETSY HODGES: Get involved locally. Just take 30 seconds to ask yourself if somebody, the woman herself, or one of her supporters says, hey, they're using the tools of sexism here, before dismissing that outright as, oh, they're just using that as an excuse, take 30 seconds to say, I heard about that data on MPR.

I think I should-- I will spend 30 seconds examining whether or not it may actually be accurate that we are using the tools of sexism against this mayor in a way that we would not against a man. And perhaps I should take that standard off the table and start using my critical thinking as a human being instead.

NINA MOINI: Mayor Hodges, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

BETSY HODGES: You're so welcome. Thank you for having me.