Immigration Lawyer: No 'rhyme or reason' to who ICE agents are arresting in Minnesota

[MUSIC PLAYING] NINA MOINI: For our top story today, we're continuing to follow the Trump administration's immigration enforcement actions in Minnesota. Federal officials say they have so far made 19 arrests since announcing the deployment of 100 more federal agents to the state last week. Since then, there have been several lawsuits filed in federal court on behalf of those who've been detained by ICE recently.

Attorney David Wilson represents several of those detainees. He's on the line now to tell us more about it. Thanks so much for your time this afternoon, David.

DAVID WILSON: Good afternoon.

NINA MOINI: I wanted to start just by asking you what your biggest concern is in what you're seeing right now.

DAVID WILSON: I would say the biggest concern that's come out of the last few days is that it's becoming very difficult to figure out where people are. They're arresting so many people at one time and they're shuffling the deck as to where people are being detained that figuring out if someone is at a particular facility, or even in the state of Minnesota anymore, is proven to be quite the challenge this week.

NINA MOINI: Why do you think that is, or what normally happens, I guess?

DAVID WILSON: What normally happens is when a person's detained, they're processed. And then you can find out through an online detainee locator by their name and date of birth, or if you know their case number, where they're being held. They're holding so many people so quickly, especially if-- because they're conducting operations over the weekend and at odd hours, which is atypical how they used to do it, that they're-- can't keep up.

They can't keep up with the data. And the people are moving faster than the electronic data tracking them is doing itself. And so it can end up being a day late that you find out you're-- someone that you thought was say, for example, in Sherburne County is actually Nebraska now. And no one knew it until the person starts calling from a new facility in Nebraska.

NINA MOINI: Can you tell us about the cases you're filing on behalf of people in ICE detention? And what are they seeking? And what is your caseload like at this point?

DAVID WILSON: There are-- in the new-- so many habeas actions pending right now before the federal courts here in Minnesota, but also in Minnesota-- in other places around the United States. But here in particular, the sudden even escalation of what already was an escalation has caused attorneys like myself to try to keep up and try to keep people in the state, but also try to secure their release.

The government's position is that a vast majority of the people they're encountering aren't entitled to even apply for a bond in-- where we've been litigating this question over and over again. And we maintain that the law is very clear that almost everyone has the right to seek-- to see an immigration judge and to apply for release and post a bond to get released.

NINA MOINI: It's a question of interpretation of law, you're saying. And ICE made changes, it sounds like, in July that they would interpret the law in a different way. To the extent that you know where your client's detained in this recent, I should say, surge or sending of federal agents here that they're calling Operation Metro Surge-- or do you even know?

DAVID WILSON: It's impossible to distinguish between the Metro Surge people and everyone else they're just apprehending, anyways. I have had a few clients who are from Somalia and Ethiopia. They have been targeted. But I also have people from the last 48 hours from Burma, from China, Ecuador, Mexico. There is no particular rhyme or reason as to who they're picking up as much as they're touting these 19 people.

I would say that that's 19 people they-- the government wants you to see. They want to feature them as somehow justifying what they're doing to the 1,900 other people they're not going to give a bond hearing who don't have criminal history and a year ago would have been able to see a judge to apply to get out of custody.

NINA MOINI: What about your cases and the clients that you're working with specifically? To your point, are the people that you're working with people with serious criminal records? Are they people with DWIs? A lot of the people that we're hearing about who've been arrested seemed to have DWIs. And then they also have a really serious charge.

DAVID WILSON: No. The individuals that we're litigating on behalf of-- the most they have is possibly not having a valid driver's license at one period. There was one I filed yesterday-- is the father of a US Marine. He's been applying for residency as a pending application. And his only ticket is not renewing his license fast enough. He still has a valid license. And that's the major crime that somehow justifies his detention and being pulled away from his wife and children.

NINA MOINI: I know you don't want to reveal identities of people and-- in all of these specific cases. But once somebody is out of state, does that make your process, or their process, harder?

DAVID WILSON: It does. The problem with the moving of people is that attorneys find themselves chasing the person around the country. And just as we start to try to engage a court where the person is located, the person may move again. And it may be too late, and the court hasn't acted fast enough.

The challenge also is in certain parts of the country, the volume is just overwhelming the courts. And they, too, can't move fast enough. For example, in the Western District of Louisiana, cases are backed up 60 days before a judge will even look at the request. And the removal process isn't going to wait 60 days. And so if a person gets moved there, it's very difficult to secure their release.

NINA MOINI: What about the pickups that you're hearing about? We've heard from some individuals that there was an incident at Augsburg University. We had the president of the university on yesterday talking about parking lots and whether they're public or private parking lots. This was a private parking lot. It seems like we're hearing, at least, of many detainments that are happening when someone is driving or being followed or getting in and out of their vehicle. Is that in line with what you're seeing? When you say that you have clients who are targeted, what do you mean?

DAVID WILSON: I think the vehicle is becoming the ICE operational tool. They like to get a person alone in their car, surround the vehicle, and then pull them out of it and then leave the car behind. Quite a few of my more recent detainees were driving, going to the airport for Lyft or Uber pickups. And there's rumors circulating that ICE is using Uber and Lyft to target people because then they can figure out their license plates and who they are and know where they're traveling so they can intercept them.

And so the car is the number one way in which my clients end up being detained. They get pulled over either leaving their home, or sometimes they get randomly found at an intersection because ICE is using license plate readers. And then they determine that maybe that person has an immigration question and pulls over the car, and it goes from there.

NINA MOINI: So when you're representing these clients, David, you are trying to get them to get a bond hearing, first of all, so that they don't have to be in custody. But what else are you working toward? Is it that they not be removed from the country, they not be deported, or is it you've got to get them back from another state, like a Nebraska, or where are you even starting with people?

DAVID WILSON: I think our focus in a lot of this litigation is just let someone seek release-- that we're not really getting into the larger question of, should they be removed? That's a separate proceeding from custody. So we're trying to turn back on the custody light so people can see a judge and make their case as to why they can be trusted to come back to court, they can pay a bond to make sure they do show up. Then let's deal with whether they should stay or whether they ultimately have to go.

And so a lot of these people seeking release have a-- will accept that if they lose their case, that's the way life is. And they will respect the law. They want an opportunity to go through the process, though. But they don't want to do it in custody because there's nothing saying that they won't show up. And the vast majority of people who do pay bonds do show up.

And so this disconnect that we have now where custody is the removal process is what's really becoming the reality, where people under the pressure of being detained for indefinite periods are just succumbing to it. It doesn't matter. They could have had businesses here, children. They just don't want to sit in confinement for an indefinite period, especially when they know they really haven't done anything criminal. They're being punished because they're an immigrant. That's hard for them to accept. And I think that's the point-- is to pressure people to surrender so they don't want a hearing and they just leave.

NINA MOINI: Just lastly for today, David, you mentioned it's hard to know exactly how many people are being detained, why, where they're going. Where are you looking to try to get any sort of numbers or clear information about what's going on?

DAVID WILSON: We get into-- a large number of calls from family members, community members about people that they've learned who have become detained. People are pretty savvy of having a network. So if they are detained-- that they can get the word out so someone can actually try helping them.

We've been really advocating for people having, for lack of a better term, a safety plan for what they should do regarding their car, their picking up their children from school, all those things. And so we're seeing those plans activated in that sense. And so I think that also, people are really good at paying attention to what information is being shared on social media between-- by advocates who are trying to keep tabs on where was ICE seen today to get a feel for what parts of the community maybe other people should avoid for the day.

NINA MOINI: All right, David. I thank you for your time today. And I hope you'll come back on and continue to keep us informed of what you're seeing. I appreciate your perspective.

DAVID WILSON: Oh, you're welcome. Thank you so much for having me.

NINA MOINI: David Wilson is the managing attorney at Wilson Law Group.