The man who may be the next chief of police in Minneapolis answers our questions

[MUSIC PLAYING] CATHY WURZER: And our top story, the man who could become the next Minneapolis police chief is a step closer to the job. Yesterday, Brian O'Hara took questions from Minneapolis City Council members and the public for a couple of hours. If the council approves his nomination next week, O'Hara, who is with the City of Newark, New Jersey, would be the first outsider to run the Minneapolis Police Department in 16 years. Brian O'Hara is on the line with us right now. Welcome to Minnesota Now.

BRIAN O'HARA: Hi, Cathy. Thank you for having me.

CATHY WURZER: Thanks for being here. Say, a Minneapolis resident at yesterday's hearing said he has the highest hopes for you but the lowest expectations. What did you think when you heard that comment?

BRIAN O'HARA: Well, I just think that speaks to the frustrations that a lot of folks have. I mean, both members of the police department and members of the community have been through a lot, particularly over the last 2 and 1/2 years. But even historically here in the city, I think it's true.

Just from my own time here, getting a chance to meet folks in the community at community meetings, also at places of worship, that I think people have been through so much that they are actually looking for change. And I just think that the stage is set where there's a possibility to do some meaningful work in terms of reducing serious crime but also changing the culture and the dynamics around policing in the city.

CATHY WURZER: Let's talk about culture change for just a minute here. The MPD has long had a reputation and a history of so-called "thumpers" within its ranks, and the world saw what happened with the murder of George Floyd. With the call for culture change within the department, what does that look like to you?

BRIAN O'HARA: Well, I think culture change is something that has to be cultivated and worked on every day. It looks like assessing where we are, what is the state of affairs today, and where do we want to be, and doing things intentionally every day to close that gap I think culture change is not something that we can think of in terms of a checklist of items to do and then it's over. It's something that you have to be very intentional about all the time.

And it starts with the police chief. The police chief needs to be present in community and hear what residents experiences are around policing but also be present within the organization and among the rank and file to hear their concerns as well

CATHY WURZER: You are dealing with a mass exodus of officers. The ranks are thin. Why do you think that's happened?

BRIAN O'HARA: Well, certainly, the police officers here, much like the residents, have gone through a lot. There's been a lot of trauma. But I think the officers who remain here are incredibly dedicated to this city. They're dedicated to this profession. They're the ones who did not take the easy way out.

Over the last two years, a lot of officers left for easier jobs-- easier police departments, frankly-- and on medical pensions and so on. So I think it's a tremendous opportunity to rebuild and hire new people for those vacancies-- hopefully residents of this city to be hired for those vacancies who can then learn the new way so that we're not trying to change someone who's been working here for decades and teach them a new way of policing but have new officers come in who do not know the mistakes of the past.

CATHY WURZER: Are you saying that the officers who left were problem officers, in a sense, so that you're starting fresh, in a way?

BRIAN O'HARA: I'm saying I believe that the people who remained took the harder decision; . I believe that it is very easy over the last 2 and 1/2 years to quit, to give up, to go out on a medical pension, to go to a suburb or an easier police department. I think the people who remain are more dedicated. And from meeting with them, attending roll calls with them, speaking to them on the street, I believe that they are also, like many of our residents, committed and are looking for a positive change.

CATHY WURZER: You've got to bolster the ranks, you know that. You've talked about recruiting from within Minneapolis. Does that mean you'll also require officers to live within the city limits?

BRIAN O'HARA: No, there isn't a residency requirement. However, I do think we have to be very intentional about our recruitment efforts. I think it would add value, and I think it's-- now, this is a job that isn't just about the pay. It's not just about the benefits. I think for the folks who live in this city, I think we need to reach out to them and have them be a part of this positive change.

A lot of people here are upset and fed up with things that have happened, and I think we need to market this as an ability to do something positive for your community and be a part of some real change.

CATHY WURZER: Do you think it's important for a Minneapolis police officer to live in the city they serve?

BRIAN O'HARA: I think it's important. In my experience in Newark, I think it's important that residents want a closeness-- not necessarily in the sense of geography but they want a closeness of heart. They want a police officer who is concerned about their needs, who respects people in the community, and who will be responsive to what they want. So I don't think it's a necessary requirement. However, I do think residents are looking for someone who cares about them.

CATHY WURZER: You've said it's important to lift up good behavior and hold those accountable for infractions and misdeeds. What will discipline look like under your leadership knowing that you're also dealing with an entrenched police union in a contract with the city that's specific on disciplinary measures?

BRIAN O'HARA: Sure. Well, I do think there are issues around the disciplinary process here. I think that's pretty well documented. I think discipline needs to be closer in time to when infractions occur. However, I don't necessarily think discipline needs to be excessive. But there needs to be some certainty of a consequence if a person steps outside the acceptable behavior.

And now there's a whole wide range of possibilities what that will look like. But I think moving forward, particularly if the city does become under a consent decree and we revise policy, we revise training for the entire agency, I think an important part of actually implementing new policies and making change real is ensuring that we have mechanisms in place to monitor officers' behavior so that when folks step outside of that, there is an immediate consequence.

CATHY WURZER: And would that mean being fired?

BRIAN O'HARA: In the worst case scenario, yes. But on the most common basis, as we retrain officers, we need to check and make sure that they're actually performing according to what's written down on paper. So that may be as simple as an officer commits an infraction today, and tomorrow he is immediately called in by a supervisor and addressed.

And if it turns out that it was a minor infraction-- he misunderstood the training, he checked the wrong box off on a form-- that that behavior is corrected immediately. However, if we see an ongoing pattern or something more serious, then, yes, it will absolutely be formal discipline that could lead up to termination.

CATHY WURZER: Speaking of discipline, MPR News has asked the City of Newark several times for your personnel file and any disciplinary records. The city has declined. Have you ever been formally disciplined?

BRIAN O'HARA: The status of the records in New Jersey is such that its-- by state statute-- Title 40A, I believe it is-- all police departments in New Jersey must follow the directives of the attorney general. And the New Jersey attorney general has issued a directive very specific around the confidentiality of A records and when and how they may be accessed, and it includes accessing records for employment purposes.

And it's actually the case that I cannot request my own records or see them as a current member of a police department or even now as a former member of the police department. But it's the case that, no, I have never been suspended from the police department.

CATHY WURZER: All right. You have spoken about wanting to work with people you don't agree with. Minneapolis community safety commissioner Cedric Alexander-- you're going to be working with him-- has been engaged in several public. Twitter fights-- very public. Twitter fights-- and ended up apologizing for his comments. Does that kind of community interaction concern you at all?

BRIAN O'HARA: I don't have any form of social media other than a LinkedIn account that I created recently. I'm aware that the city actually has a social media policy that I would abide by if I were to engage in that type of space. But, no, I don't have any intention of getting involved in social media.

CATHY WURZER: You've basically done the job that Commissioner Alexander now holds. Both of you appear to be pretty strong leaders. Do you anticipate butting heads with him?

BRIAN O'HARA: No. I mean, this setup may be new from Minneapolis, but it's not new for me. And my entire career, even as a public safety director, we all have bosses-- plural-- that we have to answer to. And I'm excited at the opportunity to work with the commissioner. He's someone who's been involved in this business for decades and is well known in law enforcement circles. And frankly, I think we'd be a good complement for one another.

CATHY WURZER: By the way, I understand your wife is a police officer. And I'm curious, how does that inform your decision making as a leader in public safety?

BRIAN O'HARA: My wife is a lieutenant on the Newark Police Department. I don't know. I don't know how specifically that would inform decision making. Our relationship is such that we don't really talk about work at home. It's more about our personal lives.

CATHY WURZER: OK. By the way, what's the first thing you're going to do when you-- if you are confirmed, what's your first 100 days looks like? What will they look like in the first 100 days for you?

BRIAN O'HARA: Yes, on Day 0, I guess what we're in now, I've already started. I think it's very important to listen and to learn as much as possible to be able to connect with as many stakeholders as we can, as I can, in terms of learning who folks are in the community, what community priorities are and expectations, and what the issues are.

I think the same is true internally within the agency. I've tried to be present as much as possible at roll calls so that the officers get a chance to know me and I can hear from them how they see things as well. It's also important to try and partner with other law enforcement partners.

You know, I met this week with the US Attorney, and I'm also starting to meet with them and have met at community meetings some of the folks who are involved in the community-based violence prevention work. So, at least in the immediate term, it's more about listening and learning. And then as we move forward, of course, the number one priority will be addressing issues around gun violence.

CATHY WURZER: All right. We look forward to talking to you again. Thank you so much.

BRIAN O'HARA: Thank you for having me, Cathy.

CATHY WURZER: We've been talking to Brian O'Hara. He's the nominee for Minneapolis police chief.