Minnesota Now with Nina Moini

New 'Early Risers' podcast season explores conversations about race with children

A woman looks into the camera
Dianne Haulcy is the host of Early Risers, a podcast from Little Moments Count and MPR.
Courtesy Little Moments Count

After George Floyd was killed by police nearly three years ago, there was a call to wake up to racism and inequity. Dianne Haulcy works in early childhood education and at the time she decided to start a project focused on how we talk with very young children about race and racism.

Her podcast is called Early Risers and its fourth season launches this month. Haulcy joined guest host Melissa Townsend to talk about what she’s learned from all the conversations she’s had and what’s in store this season. 

Use the audio player above to listen to the full conversation. 

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Audio transcript

MELISSA TOWNSEND: Legislation is making its way through the state government that would have a massive impact on the cost of child care in the state. For many, child care is eye-poppingly expensive. At the same time, many small child care providers can't make a living. Two bills in the state legislature would cap the cost of child care based on a family's income and expand subsidies for child care providers.

Diane Haulcy is an early childhood care expert. She's president and CEO of the Family Partnership in Minneapolis, and she also hosts a podcast called Early Risers. I'm very excited to have her back on Minnesota Now. Hi, Diane.

DIANE HAULCY: Hi, Melissa. Thanks for having me today.

MELISSA TOWNSEND: So you've been working in the early childhood space for decades. I've read Minnesota has some of the most costly child care in the country. Can you talk about, based on your experience with families, the impact of child care costs on a family?

DIANE HAULCY: Child care is very expensive, as you just said, Melissa. And we do have some programs to help families, but you have to meet a very low-income qualification to actually be able to receive those services. I just had a person the other day-- this is just an example-- came to me. She and her husband just had their second child, and she was begging me for any resource that I have that could help them pay for childcare. They are just above where we might have those cutoffs for low-income people, so they do not apply for any of the subsidies or scholarships. And I can't tell you how many times I've heard parents say that.

MELISSA TOWNSEND: One of the bills that's making its way through the House would-- I'm sorry-- I've got to get this wording right-- would cap the cost of child care based on a family's income. Tell me about that.

DIANE HAULCY: Yeah, the bill that you're mentioning, there's a stipulation in there that says that, basically, no family should pay more than 7% of their total income on child care. So it's a complicated figure, but basically, it is acknowledging that, number one, child care is extremely expensive. Number two, it's expensive for all families, and all families need some kind of help in order to pay for it. And so the amount that you may be currently paying could drastically be reduced.

MELISSA TOWNSEND: Got it. And what about those families that are right at that line? If they made, like, $1,000 less, they would get subsidies, but they don't. Would this help them?

DIANE HAULCY: Absolutely. So no longer will people have to forgo getting that raise because that raise puts them a little bit above the line. They can go ahead and get their raises, get their promotions, and still be able to afford child care.

MELISSA TOWNSEND: Got it. And the really confounding thing is that child care is so expensive, and yet small child care providers are barely making ends meet from what I hear. Tell me about that part of the picture.

DIANE HAULCY: So we have in America what's called a child care crisis. And this crisis started before the pandemic, but it has just been exacerbated by the pandemic. And basically, to put it simply, there's two things that are creating this crisis, and one of them is that child care educators are woefully underpaid. And so they are coming out of the field. They were coming out of the field before the pandemic, but since the pandemic, that has only increased for a number of different reasons.

And so we don't have enough teachers or educators in early childhood to go into the classroom, which then means we have fewer seats for people to actually receive child care. So in many places, especially if you're in a rural area, you may be driving 50 miles one way, maybe 70 miles one way, just to get child care because there are fewer slots, fewer seats, however you want to describe it, for people to actually receive child care.

MELISSA TOWNSEND: So do these bills go far enough? I mean, we are in a crisis, as you're saying. And I've heard some criticism that more needs to be done. What's your expert opinion?

DIANE HAULCY: A couple of things. One is, could there be more done? Perhaps. But I have never seen this many bills that could potentially really affect the child care system in Minnesota ever. What is actually being proposed is a game changer. There's several other bills, too, that really help the child care field that are trying to get at the issue around wage and get at the issue around stabilize child care providers and provide extra support. So the amount of attention being paid to early childhood this session is incredible.

MELISSA TOWNSEND: Now, I understand both these bills have passed the House along party lines. Democrats are supportive. Republicans are not. There's been conversation about fraud and that these bills may perpetuate fraud happening in the early childhood care space. What's your reaction to that?

DIANE HAULCY: My first reaction is, I know that anyone that is bringing a bill before the legislature now which involves funding that might potentially go to nonprofits is feeling the effects, even a couple of years later, from some actual fraud that did happen in one program, one nonprofit that had a very public display of fraud. It wasn't even in the scholarship space, per se, but it was in the early childhood space. And so now there is some bit of apprehension at the legislature, especially amongst Republicans, wanting to make sure that that doesn't happen again. And so I think we're still just feeling the effects of that.

MELISSA TOWNSEND: And Feeding Our Future, new charges were just filed. Are you feeling the impact of that, too? You work for a nonprofit.

DIANE HAULCY: So I have been up to the legislature a few times this session already to advocate for certain bills. And yes, I have heard questions like that almost every time I've been up there. And so yeah, we're definitely still feeling the effects of that.

MELISSA TOWNSEND: You have a special interest in equity, racial equity. That is, of course, what your podcast is all about. How would this impact BIPOC families, Black families specifically, these two bills?

DIANE HAULCY: Well, I have to say, a lot of families are struggling, a lot of Black families, a lot of BIPOC families that go above these poverty lines. And so there's nothing more equitable, I think, than crafting a bill that's based on a percentage of income, because everybody can get some kind of relief from a bill that's structured in that fashion.

MELISSA TOWNSEND: Because it's based on your income.

DIANE HALSEY: Yeah, a percentage of your income as opposed to a line in the sand where you draw that line, if you make a few dollars above that, you're just out of luck. And there's a lot of families, a lot of families of color that are just above that line that right now are out of luck. They don't get any support in paying for their child care. And this will help with that.

MELISSA TOWNSEND: All right. Well I want to turn attention briefly to the new season of the podcast called Early Risers, all about talking with young children about race and racism. So you've been going for three seasons, and you've talked with some nationally renowned, respected experts in the field, but this season is different. You're going to the parents. Tell me about why you decided to talk to parents this season.

DIANE HAULCY: Yes, I am so excited. One of the reasons why I wanted to do this is because people would come up to me, and they said the thing that they really appreciated the most about the podcast is really getting good, concrete tips and tools about specifically what to say and what to do in certain situations. And so I thought, well, let's talk to the parent.

I wanted to get those tips from people, but I also wanted people to know that they are not alone, that as parents of color, as white parents, we are all in this journey trying to figure out how to talk to our children about race and what to say. And so I figured, what better way than to really talk to some parents and get their advice to help people?

MELISSA TOWNSEND: Last question on this. I know you're talking with a very diverse lineup of people. Is there a common theme that you're hearing?

DIANE HAULCY: One common theme I am hearing is that, number one, we all have a story about race in our early childhood. And what I'm also learning is that we don't talk about those stories. For some people, me interviewing them and asking them certain questions may be the first time that they've actually articulated some of the things that have been happening to them or even happening to their children. We all have a story. We are all experiencing this, and we are all collectively deciding not to talk about it. That's the main thing that I have learned.

MELISSA TOWNSEND: Individually and yet collectively. [LAUGHS]

DIANE HAULCY: Yes.

MELISSA TOWNSEND: Well, I'm excited to hear the new lineup. So thanks, Diane. I appreciate it.

DIANE HAULCY: Thank you, Melissa.

MELISSA TOWNSEND: Diane Haulcy is a creator and host of Early Risers, a podcast about handling topics of race and racism with very young children. She is also the president and CEO of The Family Partnership in Minneapolis.

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