Killing of officer raises mental health and gun violence concerns
A vigil featuring fallen Pope County Deputy Josh Owen’s squad car sits outside the Pope County Courthouse in Glenwood, Minn. on Monday.
Tim Evans for MPR News
On Monday morning, there was a somber procession of law enforcement vehicles that escorted the body of Pope County sheriff’s deputy, Joshua Owen, from the Twin Cities, where an autopsy took place, to Glenwood Minn., the seat of Pope County.
There’s a growing memorial of flowers and flags outside the Pope County Sheriff’s office in honor of Deputy Owen who was shot and killed while two other law enforcement officers were injured during a domestic dispute call on Saturday.
Kelly McCarthy is chair of the Peace Officer Standards and Training Board and the Mendota Heights Police Chief. She MPR News host Cathy Wurzer to talk about what this recent police killing means for officers and their mental health as well as gun violence.
“It's difficult,” McCarthy said. “Anytime there's a senseless act of community violence, but when it's a police officer, it tends to make everyone feel unsafe.”
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She also mentioned access to firearms as a cause of gun violence, explaining that after mass shootings “often things something will happen [with gun control], but it never really materializes.”
“Maybe if we as police officers were more willing to say ‘Hey, let’s stop gun violence. Let’s talk about red flag laws.’ But I don’t think that will manifest."
Use the audio player above to listen to the full conversation.
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Audio transcript
CATHY WURZER: Earlier today, there was a somber procession of law enforcement vehicles that escorted the body of Pope County Sheriff's Deputy Joshua Owen from the Twin Cities, where an autopsy took place to Glenwood Minnesota, the seat of Pope County. There's a growing memorial of flowers and flags outside the Pope County Sheriff's Office in honor of Deputy Owen, who was shot and killed while two other law enforcement officers were injured during a domestic dispute call on Saturday.
Kelly McCarthy is chair of the Peace Officer Standards and Training Board and the Mendota Heights Police Chief. She's on the line right now to talk about what this recent police killing means for officers and their mental health. Chief McCarthy, thanks for joining us.
KELLY MCCARTHY: Oh, thank you for having me, Cathy.
CATHY WURZER: Give us a sense, if you would-- well, how are you and how are other officers around the state of Minnesota feeling a day after this terrible tragedy?
KELLY MCCARTHY: Well, obviously, it's difficult, but our thoughts are really with the Pope County community and Deputy Owen's family, and certainly Sheriff Riley having to do the hardest work they've ever had to do. And they're all in our thoughts. And it's difficult any time there's a senseless act of community violence, but when it's a police officer. It tends to make everyone feel unsafe.
CATHY WURZER: Has this ever happened to you in your career?
KELLY MCCARTHY: Unfortunately, I was with the Lino Lakes Police Department when Officer Shawn Silvera was killed in the line of duty, and then I joined the Mendota Heights Police Department two years after Scott Patrick was killed in the line of duty.
CATHY WURZER: Can you give words to the reverberations, then, of a death of a colleague that goes through the department?
KELLY MCCARTHY: You're never prepared for it. I think grief is one of those things that's universally felt but uniquely dealt with. And so trying to navigate a professional environment when something hurts so personally is definitely hard. I was very lucky and had leadership at Lino Lakes that really cared about us and our mental state. And I think that is what helped a lot of us get through it. But the leadership will never do it 100% correct, and there will be people who are upset, and it's difficult. And it definitely shows the cracks in an organization, but it also reminds the officers in your organization just how much community support there is.
CATHY WURZER: And how should a department support their officers at a time like this? What's the best course of action?
KELLY MCCARTHY: Well, it's difficult because everybody handles grief differently, and police officers are very action-oriented, and we want to do something. But there's not a whole lot you can do. Leadership will often have other departments cover your calls, and some officers will be angry about that because they just want to get right back out into the street. But you can't, in good faith, allow them to do that.
And so it's really just talking about it, being open, being as transparent as you can, reminding everybody of what we have control over and what we don't have control over, and then focusing on the deputy and his family and what they need at this time because it's awful to lose a colleague, but it's infinitely worse to lose a husband and a father.
CATHY WURZER: Right. I was watching the procession earlier this morning from a helicopter vantage point, and then some ground shots of the faces in those squad cars were just heartbreaking. Does it make an officer do their job differently, knowing that a colleague has fallen-- this is this can happen on the job to any one of any officer.
KELLY MCCARTHY: I think we're acutely aware of it. I think it has a bigger impact on our families, who can kind of push it out of their mind because they don't come to work every day and put on a gun, and then when they're faced with things like this, they worry more about us. But it shouldn't change the way we do our job.
We'll come together as a department here on Wednesday. We'll talk about it. We'll remind each other, again, there's things you can control and things you can't, and that all violence is interconnected. And you won't find someone who engages in violence against a police officer that probably doesn't have a history of domestic assault, and so why we need to treat those crimes and violence everywhere in our community and fight against it. And then you just have to go and do your job.
CATHY WURZER: I remember you and I talked about this. Domestic assault calls are some of the most fraught with peril calls that you all get. Is that correct? Do you remember that correctly?
KELLY MCCARTHY: Yes, they definitely feel that way. They're very emotional for everybody.
CATHY WURZER: I'm wondering too-- the BCA reported that seven police officers have been shot this year in the line of duty in Minnesota. What's going on out there?
KELLY MCCARTHY: Well, you hate to politicize things, but at some point, we have to decide what we as a society are willing to tolerate in gun violence and access to firearms. And I thought we would do something after Sandy Hook. I thought we would do something after cops were killed in Dallas. I just keep thinking that something will happen, and it never really materializes. But at some point, maybe we need to at least come to the agreement that firearms seem too easy to access, and there's a lot of people who have firearms who shouldn't. So it seems insurmountable at times, but that's also usually from a place of grief.
CATHY WURZER: Brian Peters, one of your colleagues from the Minnesota Police and Peace Officers Association had a statement this weekend about Deputy Owen's killing. And he feels this could have a disturbing impact on recruitment, retention, and, of course, the mental health and wellbeing of law enforcement. And I'm wondering-- and I hope it's not too early to ask this question-- how should police departments go about recruiting officers after young people see a tragedy like this one?
KELLY MCCARTHY: Well, police officers have been killed in the line of duty since they were police officers. And I think that there is honor in this job, and what we're saying is that we will put ourselves in danger so that you don't have to. And so I don't really look at it as a recruitment and retention thing. I look at it as we're saying that that is what we are going to do. And those are people-- we're the people in society who have that full-time responsibility. So I guess I would be excited if I thought any of those statements would result in societal change, if maybe that meant we, as police officers, were more willing to say, hey, let's stop gun violence and let's talk about red flag laws, but I don't know that will manifest.
CATHY WURZER: Have you to have an opportunity to testify at the state legislature this session about some of these gun laws that are being proposed?
KELLY MCCARTHY: No, I have not. Yeah, I haven't really kept on top of it this session just because it seems like there's been so much going on. But again, this isn't unique to our community or our profession, and that, I think, is the real tragedy.
CATHY WURZER: I appreciate your time here, Chief McCarthy. Thank you so much.
KELLY MCCARTHY: No, thank you, Cathy, and thanks to everyone listening and all the thoughts and just the condolences to the Pope County Sheriff and the family of Deputy Owen.
CATHY WURZER: Thank you. That was Peace Officer Standards and Training Board Chair Kelly McCarthy. She's also the chief of the Mendota Heights Police Department.
Kelly McCarthy is chair of the Peace Officer Standards and Training Board and the Mendota Heights Police Chief. She's on the line right now to talk about what this recent police killing means for officers and their mental health. Chief McCarthy, thanks for joining us.
KELLY MCCARTHY: Oh, thank you for having me, Cathy.
CATHY WURZER: Give us a sense, if you would-- well, how are you and how are other officers around the state of Minnesota feeling a day after this terrible tragedy?
KELLY MCCARTHY: Well, obviously, it's difficult, but our thoughts are really with the Pope County community and Deputy Owen's family, and certainly Sheriff Riley having to do the hardest work they've ever had to do. And they're all in our thoughts. And it's difficult any time there's a senseless act of community violence, but when it's a police officer. It tends to make everyone feel unsafe.
CATHY WURZER: Has this ever happened to you in your career?
KELLY MCCARTHY: Unfortunately, I was with the Lino Lakes Police Department when Officer Shawn Silvera was killed in the line of duty, and then I joined the Mendota Heights Police Department two years after Scott Patrick was killed in the line of duty.
CATHY WURZER: Can you give words to the reverberations, then, of a death of a colleague that goes through the department?
KELLY MCCARTHY: You're never prepared for it. I think grief is one of those things that's universally felt but uniquely dealt with. And so trying to navigate a professional environment when something hurts so personally is definitely hard. I was very lucky and had leadership at Lino Lakes that really cared about us and our mental state. And I think that is what helped a lot of us get through it. But the leadership will never do it 100% correct, and there will be people who are upset, and it's difficult. And it definitely shows the cracks in an organization, but it also reminds the officers in your organization just how much community support there is.
CATHY WURZER: And how should a department support their officers at a time like this? What's the best course of action?
KELLY MCCARTHY: Well, it's difficult because everybody handles grief differently, and police officers are very action-oriented, and we want to do something. But there's not a whole lot you can do. Leadership will often have other departments cover your calls, and some officers will be angry about that because they just want to get right back out into the street. But you can't, in good faith, allow them to do that.
And so it's really just talking about it, being open, being as transparent as you can, reminding everybody of what we have control over and what we don't have control over, and then focusing on the deputy and his family and what they need at this time because it's awful to lose a colleague, but it's infinitely worse to lose a husband and a father.
CATHY WURZER: Right. I was watching the procession earlier this morning from a helicopter vantage point, and then some ground shots of the faces in those squad cars were just heartbreaking. Does it make an officer do their job differently, knowing that a colleague has fallen-- this is this can happen on the job to any one of any officer.
KELLY MCCARTHY: I think we're acutely aware of it. I think it has a bigger impact on our families, who can kind of push it out of their mind because they don't come to work every day and put on a gun, and then when they're faced with things like this, they worry more about us. But it shouldn't change the way we do our job.
We'll come together as a department here on Wednesday. We'll talk about it. We'll remind each other, again, there's things you can control and things you can't, and that all violence is interconnected. And you won't find someone who engages in violence against a police officer that probably doesn't have a history of domestic assault, and so why we need to treat those crimes and violence everywhere in our community and fight against it. And then you just have to go and do your job.
CATHY WURZER: I remember you and I talked about this. Domestic assault calls are some of the most fraught with peril calls that you all get. Is that correct? Do you remember that correctly?
KELLY MCCARTHY: Yes, they definitely feel that way. They're very emotional for everybody.
CATHY WURZER: I'm wondering too-- the BCA reported that seven police officers have been shot this year in the line of duty in Minnesota. What's going on out there?
KELLY MCCARTHY: Well, you hate to politicize things, but at some point, we have to decide what we as a society are willing to tolerate in gun violence and access to firearms. And I thought we would do something after Sandy Hook. I thought we would do something after cops were killed in Dallas. I just keep thinking that something will happen, and it never really materializes. But at some point, maybe we need to at least come to the agreement that firearms seem too easy to access, and there's a lot of people who have firearms who shouldn't. So it seems insurmountable at times, but that's also usually from a place of grief.
CATHY WURZER: Brian Peters, one of your colleagues from the Minnesota Police and Peace Officers Association had a statement this weekend about Deputy Owen's killing. And he feels this could have a disturbing impact on recruitment, retention, and, of course, the mental health and wellbeing of law enforcement. And I'm wondering-- and I hope it's not too early to ask this question-- how should police departments go about recruiting officers after young people see a tragedy like this one?
KELLY MCCARTHY: Well, police officers have been killed in the line of duty since they were police officers. And I think that there is honor in this job, and what we're saying is that we will put ourselves in danger so that you don't have to. And so I don't really look at it as a recruitment and retention thing. I look at it as we're saying that that is what we are going to do. And those are people-- we're the people in society who have that full-time responsibility. So I guess I would be excited if I thought any of those statements would result in societal change, if maybe that meant we, as police officers, were more willing to say, hey, let's stop gun violence and let's talk about red flag laws, but I don't know that will manifest.
CATHY WURZER: Have you to have an opportunity to testify at the state legislature this session about some of these gun laws that are being proposed?
KELLY MCCARTHY: No, I have not. Yeah, I haven't really kept on top of it this session just because it seems like there's been so much going on. But again, this isn't unique to our community or our profession, and that, I think, is the real tragedy.
CATHY WURZER: I appreciate your time here, Chief McCarthy. Thank you so much.
KELLY MCCARTHY: No, thank you, Cathy, and thanks to everyone listening and all the thoughts and just the condolences to the Pope County Sheriff and the family of Deputy Owen.
CATHY WURZER: Thank you. That was Peace Officer Standards and Training Board Chair Kelly McCarthy. She's also the chief of the Mendota Heights Police Department.
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