Harvard study calls on Minneapolis to create new model for safety and wellness services

[MUSIC PLAYING] CATHY WURZER: The Public Health and Safety Committee of the Minneapolis City Council is looking at a new report this afternoon that's a blueprint to help the city transform public safety. The report from Harvard University researchers calls on the city to create a new model of services that enable community safety and wellness.

Former DFL State Representative Carlos Mariani Rosa is on the line. He was the chair of the Minnesota House Public Safety Committee who had a hand in state efforts around police reform. Mariani Rosa is the current executive director of the Minnesota Education Equity Partnership.

Representative, good to talk with you again.

CARLOS MARIANI ROSA: And with you, Cathy. Thanks for the invitation.

CATHY WURZER: There are three pillars to this plan, crime prevention, response to crime, and restorative services, programs that deal with trauma and the like. Does this plan feel complete?

CARLOS MARIANI ROSA: Pretty close, I would say. I do like that it sets up a real big approach. They even use the term ecosystem, which I think is appropriate. It really begs creating a new structure, if you will. And they've picked some really powerful strong elements around which to do those. So there's a good vision here.

One of the things that we were always concerned with when I chaired the committee was the tendency-- if we did anything-- was a tendency to do small isolated fixes. This report seems to be saying, look, that's ineffective. We've done that before.

What we need is a comprehensive structural change here that's centered around these three principles. I do think there's another principle that's missing, but I suspect you'll ask me about that in a second.

CATHY WURZER: Yes, I will, as a matter of fact. I want to begin-- I want to just drill down on structural issues right now for just a second. You represented Saint Paul but were privy to discussions about the situation in Minneapolis. All the reports that have been released thus far, including the Department of Justice report, call for structural change. But is Minneapolis equipped for this kind of change?

CARLOS MARIANI ROSA: Well, it's going to have to be. I think the trap that Minneapolis, and other jurisdictions, unfortunately, that face similar challenges, get in is the inability to think outside of the box, that there are behaviors that are baked in that are reinforced by the way departments are structured, the way leadership is chosen, the incentives and disincentives that are negotiated into the set of relationships in that system.

So I think the question of whether Minneapolis is ready or not for that to me really does seem to come down to at least one thing, if not more. And that one thing is leadership.

And leadership, in my mind, is more than just a courageous chief, or a courageous mayor, or a member of city council, or a citizen. It's about a willingness to engage in collaborative efforts, to coordinate with one another, and hold each other accountable within that collaborative structure.

I think this report really attempts to evoke that. It makes a big deal of talking about collaborative culture. And the way I translate that is that it then sets up a leadership dynamic which is exactly what's needed in any big change effort in order to do things differently.

CATHY WURZER: Is there an existing leadership dynamic in the city that will make some of this possible?

CARLOS MARIANI ROSA: You know, I don't know, honestly. I do reside in Saint Paul and not Minneapolis. And I've been a little bit removed. Last time I chaired, it was a different chief, et cetera.

I like the rhetoric that I hear from the current chief. I like the experience that he's had. I like the persistence that I'm hearing from the city council itself. I like the fact that, even beyond that, there seems to be some elements of seriousness in the broader civic community, the business community, to do what's actually effective.

So I think leadership is going to have to come from several sectors within the city itself. I do worry-- and, again, from a distance-- I do worry that a lots of folks at the community level may still feel like they're not being taken seriously. And we need leadership at the community level as well.

CATHY WURZER: So getting back to the report. You said that there was something missing in it for you. What was that?

CARLOS MARIANI ROSA: Well, probably no surprise of anyone who's observed our work when I chaired the committee, and that's really a real strong and pointed call for accountability. Police misconduct, police brutality, it simply cannot be tolerated. And, frankly, when it reaches a level of criminal behavior, it needs to be prosecuted.

The federal government itself pointed to, in their study, pointed to several instances of possible violation of state law. There's been no action being taken across the board on those. And so, accountability needs to be structured. It needs to set very strong consequences for bad behavior.

And, of course, I get it, Cathy. You don't build a proactive system based on waiting for someone to do something wrong and then hold them accountable. But without that accountability, it just makes it very difficult to convince participants, cops, prosecutors, citizens, to be able to build the kind of relationships that have the level of trust and honesty that's so necessary in order to modernize our public safety system.

I think the other thing-- and I didn't read-- I skimmed the report very quickly. So there's a caveat here. But I always look for whether or not there is a direct mention and reference to race and racism. It's no-- I don't think it'd be a surprise to most citizens that at the core of much of the challenges that we have with policing and public safety are strong elements of racism.

And so, if you can't name it, you can't develop an effective practice around that. I can tell you, that at the street level, folks know what's up. And they know that racism is a part of that. And they're looking for a leadership dynamic that has a proactive anti-racist message and set of activities.

CATHY WURZER: This was, as we have been talking about here, a wide-ranging report, but with not many specifics, including money. There's no estimated budget for this plan. The mayor called it audacious, said it could cost millions of dollars. Where do you think Minneapolis-- knowing how the state works-- where do you think Minneapolis might get funding for this kind of scale of program?

CARLOS MARIANI ROSA: Well, I could tell you, when I chaired the committee, that we created proposals precisely to be able to provide new resources for these kind of efforts.

We were somewhat successful. We initiated state appropriations for community-led community interveners for the expansion of other professionals besides licensed peace officers to be able to be responsive on the ground with issues that related to things like mental health, autism, disability issues.

Representative Frazier, who was the vice chair of our committee, had a very strong set of proposals that would have generated hundreds of millions of dollars, not just as a blank check to police departments, but as a way to be able to fund all sorts of new relationships between police and community interveners.

And, frankly-- and this wasn't always popular with part of my base-- but it's so necessary. You have to have to also have to have resources to support those who are police officers. It's an incredibly high-energy, challenging, stress-inducing type of work that's critically important. And we need our license officers to be mentally well, to be healthy. And that's going to cost resources.

So I do think a partnership with the state for this kind of set of proposals is in keeping with what we've put out before and it should be within bounds and not let Minneapolis have to deal with the costs of this issue by itself.

CATHY WURZER: I wish I had more time with you. Thank you so much for taking time to talk with us about this.

CARLOS MARIANI ROSA: Thank you, Cathy.

CATHY WURZER: Carlos Mariani Rosa is a former chair of the Minnesota House Public Safety Committee, current Executive Director of the Minnesota Education Equity Partnership.