Minnesota turns to lived experience of homelessness to shape new housing plan
Volunteers help Camp Nenookaasi residents pack their belongings as the City of Minneapolis clears the encampment on Tuesday.
Ben Hovland | MPR News
The number of Minnesotans experiencing homelessness on a single night in January is upwards of 8,000 people, according to a 2023 survey. The problem is persistent and complex, as shown in Tuesday’s eviction of the Nenookaasi encampment in south Minneapolis.
This all comes as the State of Minnesota is about to roll out a new housing justice plan, with a first-of-its-kind approach. The state hired people who have lived experience of homelessness to lead the way, shaping policy with their firsthand experiences. The goal is to reduce homelessness statewide by 15 percent by 2026.
MPR News host Cathy Wurzer talked with Executive Director of the Minnesota Interagency Council on Homelessness Executive Director Cathy ten Broeke and Mason Persons, a justice consultant hired to help the state form the new plan.
Use the audio player above to listen to the full conversation.
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Audio transcript
CATHY WURZER: The number of Minnesotans experiencing homelessness on a single night in January is upward of about 8,000 people. That's according to a survey last year of unhoused people in our communities. The problem is persistent and complex as we saw yesterday with the eviction of the Newcastle encampment in Minneapolis. This all comes as the state of Minnesota is about to roll out a new housing justice plan with a first of its kind approach.
The state hired people who have lived experience of homelessness to lead the way, shaping policy with their firsthand experiences in a goal to reduce homelessness statewide by 15% by the year 2026. Joining us to talk more about this plan is Cathy ten Broeke, the executive director of the Minnesota Interagency Council on Homelessness and Mason Persons, a justice consultant hired to help the state form this new plan. Mason and Cathy, welcome to the program.
CATHY TEN BROEKE: Thank you so much, Cathy.
CATHY WURZER: Real pleasure to have you here. Mason, I'm going to start with you if that's OK. How did you get involved in the state's new housing plan? Because you do have lived experience.
MASON PERSONS: Yes, I do. I started advocating for myself and other people like me when I was about 18, 19 years old. I'm 26 now. I started when I was in a housing program. I got opportunities to speak about my experience. And I've been doing it ever since then. I do national work as well as local. I found this position because I wanted to focus on Minnesota. Because that's where my experience is. And we've spent a year creating the Crossroads to Justice Plan-- from brainstorming to implementation, including coming up with the name, which was by me specifically.
CATHY WURZER: By the way, what is a justice consultant?
MASON PERSONS: A justice consultant is a person with lived experiences-- experience in homelessness, using that expertise to guide local and national change in policy, government, and legislature.
CATHY WURZER: Cathy, let's talk about what happened last year when the governor signed into law this $2.6 billion plan to go toward housing stability in the state of Minnesota. I know you and I have talked over the years. You've been working many, many years to end homelessness in our state. What kind of situation are we in here? We keep hearing about a crisis. And we've heard about this crisis for a long time. What's different now?
CATHY TEN BROEKE: Thanks, Cathy. Well, I mean, despite just incredible work over many years by partners across the state, we are still dealing with an ever increasing gap in housing that's truly affordable in this country. And that's no different in Minnesota. And incomes still do not keep pace with the rising cost of housing. And then, I think, you add in the persistent challenges that we have around access to health care and services, increasingly dangerous substances on our streets.
And we are in a crisis. This is a really challenging moment for us. And I think what is so different with this plan that Mason was so deeply a part of and the rest of our justice consultants is, first and foremost, that it was built with them in the lead at every step of the way. But as you mentioned, it's also fueled by the largest investment in housing and homelessness in state history and all the years I've been doing this work-- just remarkable. So with that investment, we see that really as the fuel for this work to create more housing that will really work for people, regardless of their circumstances in the state.
CATHY WURZER: Cathy, I'm a little surprised that folks like Mason haven't been brought into the conversation before, after all these years. Is that not been happening to this point?
CATHY TEN BROEKE: Well, here's what I was-- certainly it has been happening at some degree. But in all my years, I've never seen an effort quite like this where from the very beginning of a process, which I think is so important, people with lived experience were brought on and paid to be at every conversation, every meeting to really co-lead the work with community, to bring us the kinds of solutions that we needed to invest in at the state, and to still be with us-- a year and a half of work together. And now as we move into implementation, we are on the verge of hiring 14 more people with lived experience of homelessness to guide this work with all of the state agencies. We never want to do this work any other way.
CATHY WURZER: Mason, it's been said that trying to work within large institutional systems is pretty tough. So have you had any-- what kind of frustrations have you had as you've been helping others, and talking about your lived experiences, and what you think should be done? And I know you're doing that. But what is the frustration at times?
MASON PERSONS: This is actually something that we go into. If you look at the Crossroads to Justice Plan on the Minnesota Housing website, we have a vision statement that we co-wrote together. And we mentioned that we are pulling from our traumas to be able to do this work. And a lot of people in these government spaces just have not had to deal with the same adversities we have had.
So it really is just exhausting on a lot of different levels. It's mentally, physically, spiritually exhausting to do this work and have to educate people in your everyday life as well as people in these government spaces. Even the most wonderful well-meaning people can still say and do things that at the end of the day make the work feel even heavier than it already is when you have to constantly think of and remember the terrible things that you went through to be able to do this work. So that's one of the big ones.
CATHY WURZER: Are you seeing any light at the end of the tunnel though as you've been working in the group?
MASON PERSONS: Oh, definitely. I work specifically with MN Housing now. I've continued my consulting work with MN Housing specifically because I was working with them on the Crossroads to Justice Plan. When we were all working together as consultants, we were able to pick, which agencies within the Interagency Council we wanted to work with.
And I chose MN Housing because I was vaguely familiar with them. And the people at MN Housing have just been so forward thinking and very excited to do this work. So being around that energy has made me feel like this will happen. People believe in it. And they're not just saying they believe in it. But they're also actively working on implementing it.
CATHY WURZER: There is, of course, wide racial disparities in the state, Cathy. You brought that up. We know that a disproportionate number of Native Black and Brown Minnesotans experience homelessness. We just had that large story yesterday about Camp Nenookaasi in Minneapolis being primarily Native folks. And they closed it down a second time. The new housing plan that you're working on, how does it deal with persistent racial disparities in some of these vulnerable populations?
CATHY TEN BROEKE: So, I mean, this is a really important part of this justice plan. And what we are going to be measuring in terms of our success is not only if we are able to bring down the overall numbers of people experiencing homelessness but also, are we changing the disparities? Are we changing the harm-- repairing some of the harm that has caused the disparities we see in our communities?
So the very first result that we go for in this plan is that we are going to collaborate and co-lead with impacted communities that have been historically oppressed and excluded. And every agency has committed to hiring people with lived experience of homelessness. We're working on ensuring more equitable funding opportunities for communities disproportionately impacted and tribal nations-- being very transparent and accountable.
But then if you go through all of the results, at the core of each of the strategies is the work on equity. So for example, on the-- thinking about the encampment work, a robust crisis response really has to work directly with people who are experiencing unsheltered homelessness. Understand and listen to what they are telling us that they need and want that will truly work for them and work to really build the solution around that. So centering those voices is so critical to equity work. We've started a new interagency equity team at the state now that's going to help direct and guide all of this work as well to make sure that at every step of the way, that's really central to how we do.
CATHY WURZER: Mason, if you're with us here, I'm wondering as you-- as we wrap up this conversation, how do you make sure that officials are not just checking a box and setting a big goal? And it's just not going to be-- might fall short of the mark?
MASON PERSONS: A big one is not only having people in justice consultant positions holding people in government positions accountable but also people within government holding each other accountable. What I want to see and what MN Housing and the Interagency Council are working on is connecting with each other. There's a reason why the name is called Crossroads to Justice. Because there are many intersections in this work. And it's all very interconnected. So everyone within government can hold themselves and each other accountable. And that is the best way to be able to move this stuff forward.
CATHY WURZER: Mason Persons, I appreciate your time. Cathy ten Broeke, always a pleasure. Thank you.
CATHY TEN BROEKE: Thanks so much.
MASON PERSONS: Thank you.
CATHY WURZER: Cathy ten Broeke is the executive director of Minnesota Interagency Council on Homelessness. And Mason Persons is a justice consultant hired to help with this new plan.
The state hired people who have lived experience of homelessness to lead the way, shaping policy with their firsthand experiences in a goal to reduce homelessness statewide by 15% by the year 2026. Joining us to talk more about this plan is Cathy ten Broeke, the executive director of the Minnesota Interagency Council on Homelessness and Mason Persons, a justice consultant hired to help the state form this new plan. Mason and Cathy, welcome to the program.
CATHY TEN BROEKE: Thank you so much, Cathy.
CATHY WURZER: Real pleasure to have you here. Mason, I'm going to start with you if that's OK. How did you get involved in the state's new housing plan? Because you do have lived experience.
MASON PERSONS: Yes, I do. I started advocating for myself and other people like me when I was about 18, 19 years old. I'm 26 now. I started when I was in a housing program. I got opportunities to speak about my experience. And I've been doing it ever since then. I do national work as well as local. I found this position because I wanted to focus on Minnesota. Because that's where my experience is. And we've spent a year creating the Crossroads to Justice Plan-- from brainstorming to implementation, including coming up with the name, which was by me specifically.
CATHY WURZER: By the way, what is a justice consultant?
MASON PERSONS: A justice consultant is a person with lived experiences-- experience in homelessness, using that expertise to guide local and national change in policy, government, and legislature.
CATHY WURZER: Cathy, let's talk about what happened last year when the governor signed into law this $2.6 billion plan to go toward housing stability in the state of Minnesota. I know you and I have talked over the years. You've been working many, many years to end homelessness in our state. What kind of situation are we in here? We keep hearing about a crisis. And we've heard about this crisis for a long time. What's different now?
CATHY TEN BROEKE: Thanks, Cathy. Well, I mean, despite just incredible work over many years by partners across the state, we are still dealing with an ever increasing gap in housing that's truly affordable in this country. And that's no different in Minnesota. And incomes still do not keep pace with the rising cost of housing. And then, I think, you add in the persistent challenges that we have around access to health care and services, increasingly dangerous substances on our streets.
And we are in a crisis. This is a really challenging moment for us. And I think what is so different with this plan that Mason was so deeply a part of and the rest of our justice consultants is, first and foremost, that it was built with them in the lead at every step of the way. But as you mentioned, it's also fueled by the largest investment in housing and homelessness in state history and all the years I've been doing this work-- just remarkable. So with that investment, we see that really as the fuel for this work to create more housing that will really work for people, regardless of their circumstances in the state.
CATHY WURZER: Cathy, I'm a little surprised that folks like Mason haven't been brought into the conversation before, after all these years. Is that not been happening to this point?
CATHY TEN BROEKE: Well, here's what I was-- certainly it has been happening at some degree. But in all my years, I've never seen an effort quite like this where from the very beginning of a process, which I think is so important, people with lived experience were brought on and paid to be at every conversation, every meeting to really co-lead the work with community, to bring us the kinds of solutions that we needed to invest in at the state, and to still be with us-- a year and a half of work together. And now as we move into implementation, we are on the verge of hiring 14 more people with lived experience of homelessness to guide this work with all of the state agencies. We never want to do this work any other way.
CATHY WURZER: Mason, it's been said that trying to work within large institutional systems is pretty tough. So have you had any-- what kind of frustrations have you had as you've been helping others, and talking about your lived experiences, and what you think should be done? And I know you're doing that. But what is the frustration at times?
MASON PERSONS: This is actually something that we go into. If you look at the Crossroads to Justice Plan on the Minnesota Housing website, we have a vision statement that we co-wrote together. And we mentioned that we are pulling from our traumas to be able to do this work. And a lot of people in these government spaces just have not had to deal with the same adversities we have had.
So it really is just exhausting on a lot of different levels. It's mentally, physically, spiritually exhausting to do this work and have to educate people in your everyday life as well as people in these government spaces. Even the most wonderful well-meaning people can still say and do things that at the end of the day make the work feel even heavier than it already is when you have to constantly think of and remember the terrible things that you went through to be able to do this work. So that's one of the big ones.
CATHY WURZER: Are you seeing any light at the end of the tunnel though as you've been working in the group?
MASON PERSONS: Oh, definitely. I work specifically with MN Housing now. I've continued my consulting work with MN Housing specifically because I was working with them on the Crossroads to Justice Plan. When we were all working together as consultants, we were able to pick, which agencies within the Interagency Council we wanted to work with.
And I chose MN Housing because I was vaguely familiar with them. And the people at MN Housing have just been so forward thinking and very excited to do this work. So being around that energy has made me feel like this will happen. People believe in it. And they're not just saying they believe in it. But they're also actively working on implementing it.
CATHY WURZER: There is, of course, wide racial disparities in the state, Cathy. You brought that up. We know that a disproportionate number of Native Black and Brown Minnesotans experience homelessness. We just had that large story yesterday about Camp Nenookaasi in Minneapolis being primarily Native folks. And they closed it down a second time. The new housing plan that you're working on, how does it deal with persistent racial disparities in some of these vulnerable populations?
CATHY TEN BROEKE: So, I mean, this is a really important part of this justice plan. And what we are going to be measuring in terms of our success is not only if we are able to bring down the overall numbers of people experiencing homelessness but also, are we changing the disparities? Are we changing the harm-- repairing some of the harm that has caused the disparities we see in our communities?
So the very first result that we go for in this plan is that we are going to collaborate and co-lead with impacted communities that have been historically oppressed and excluded. And every agency has committed to hiring people with lived experience of homelessness. We're working on ensuring more equitable funding opportunities for communities disproportionately impacted and tribal nations-- being very transparent and accountable.
But then if you go through all of the results, at the core of each of the strategies is the work on equity. So for example, on the-- thinking about the encampment work, a robust crisis response really has to work directly with people who are experiencing unsheltered homelessness. Understand and listen to what they are telling us that they need and want that will truly work for them and work to really build the solution around that. So centering those voices is so critical to equity work. We've started a new interagency equity team at the state now that's going to help direct and guide all of this work as well to make sure that at every step of the way, that's really central to how we do.
CATHY WURZER: Mason, if you're with us here, I'm wondering as you-- as we wrap up this conversation, how do you make sure that officials are not just checking a box and setting a big goal? And it's just not going to be-- might fall short of the mark?
MASON PERSONS: A big one is not only having people in justice consultant positions holding people in government positions accountable but also people within government holding each other accountable. What I want to see and what MN Housing and the Interagency Council are working on is connecting with each other. There's a reason why the name is called Crossroads to Justice. Because there are many intersections in this work. And it's all very interconnected. So everyone within government can hold themselves and each other accountable. And that is the best way to be able to move this stuff forward.
CATHY WURZER: Mason Persons, I appreciate your time. Cathy ten Broeke, always a pleasure. Thank you.
CATHY TEN BROEKE: Thanks so much.
MASON PERSONS: Thank you.
CATHY WURZER: Cathy ten Broeke is the executive director of Minnesota Interagency Council on Homelessness. And Mason Persons is a justice consultant hired to help with this new plan.
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