Minnesota lawmakers propose mandatory cellphone policy in schools
The policy aims to combat student distractions
Although the days of flip phones are long gone, some students are reverting back to these so-called 'dumb phones.'
Tom Weber | MPR News 2008
Lawmakers are pushing to include a mandatory cellphone policy for Minnesota schools as part of the 2024 education policy bill. The bill is heading back to the Minnesota Senate after passing the House last week. The policy aims to curb student cellphone use in state high schools, citing a toxic culture around cellphones, distractions and deterring human interaction. DFL state Rep. Sandra Feist co-authored the bill after reading about how cellphones are severely affecting the development of children.
However, some teens are ahead of this bill. A small but growing number of young people have decided it's not worth it to have a smartphone. They’re taking control of their mental health and focus by ditching smartphones altogether. One of those young people is Leo Huppke, a sophomore at the University of Minnesota.
MPR News guest host Emily Bright spoke with both Feist and Huppke to hear about the ramifications of excessive cellphone use from both ends of the spectrum.
Use the audio player above to listen to the full conversation.
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Audio transcript
INTERVIEWER: A part of an education policy bill that would require Minnesota school districts to have a cell phone policy is headed back to the Senate. It was passed in the House last week. The bill is trying to get cell phone use in schools under control, blaming cell phones for causing distractions, deterring human interaction, and creating a toxic culture.
In a moment, we'll talk with a student who has taken matters into his own hands and ditched his smartphone for good. But first, Representative Sandra Feist is here. She co-authored the bill on cell phones in school after she started reading about how cell phones are severely affecting the development of kids. Thank you for being here, Representative Feist.
SANDRA FEIST: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.
INTERVIEWER: So the bill you co-authored requires the Minnesota School Boards Association to develop a model policy that restricts cell phone use. And then the school boards across the state would either have to adopt that model policy, or they'd be required to write their own. Don't most schools already have policies on cell phones?
SANDRA FEIST: Yeah. We actually worked with the school stakeholders to update the language a bit. So the bill requires simply that schools have a policy. And the school association, specifically the two principals associations, are going to work to provide schools with strategies to minimize the impact of student behavior, mental health, and academic attainment. And the thought is that providing this type of guidance would give schools the ability to, perhaps, take more bold steps to get cell phones under control.
INTERVIEWER: Well, that sounds useful to have the people who are in the schools be the ones making that policy decision. Why not just let schools figure it out on a case-by-case basis?
SANDRA FEIST: Well, we know that this issue is really getting out of control, and that it's having a huge impact on just child well-being overall. And what I've heard from teachers, from principals in my district, my own kids' principals, is that it would be really helpful to provide a more sort of systemic approach to this issue. Oftentimes, it falls on individual teachers to create these policies and to enforce them. And so I think everyone is looking for a way to come together around the best approaches.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. What exactly is in this bill so far?
SANDRA FEIST: Yeah, so it's a very tame bill. And ultimately, it really is about elevating this issue and, again, bringing the schools together with the experts, with the school associations, to really look at, what are the best practices? So I just finished reading Jonathan Haidt's book, The Anxious Generation, talking about how cell phones rewire childhood.
And one of the things that he kind of left with at the book is that we need to speak up. Because when we don't see other people speaking up, then we don't really consider this the crisis that it truly is. And so I see this bill as one more way that we can collectively speak up and say that this is a huge issue that we need to address at the societal level.
INTERVIEWER: I hear you. I've been looking at some stats from the American Academy of Pediatrics, and rates of depression and anxiety in the US were pretty stable in the 2000s, but they rose more than 50% from 2010 to 2019. And the suicide rates rose 48% for adolescents ages 10 to 19. For girls 10 to 14, it rose 131%. That's a lot of numbers, and it's a lot of bad numbers.
But I know many doctors attribute this to the rise in smartphones and social media use amongst teens during that time. So is this bill addressing use of phones in schools the answer? Is this the answer to this vast societal issue?
SANDRA FEIST: Well, I think it's part of the answer. What we need to do is as we're creating these rules and restrictions around cell phone access, we also need to pair that with creating more opportunities for children to socialize with minimal parental and adult intervention. We need to give children the freedom that they've had in previous generations, that, over the past decades prior to having cell phones, we've sort of limited their ability to get out into the world, and to discover themselves, and to be empowered. And so I think we need to partner our approach to technology access with also affirming children's ability to really define themselves and to create relationships and navigate those relationships on their own.
INTERVIEWER: And I suspect you're speaking from personal experience. You have middle school aged kids, right?
SANDRA FEIST: I do. Two middle schoolers. It's a interesting phase, isn't it?
INTERVIEWER: So what are you thinking about for their development and screen time? How are you navigating that?
SANDRA FEIST: Well, it's hard, but I've been pretty opinionated about it. My son is 14, and we did give him a phone. He does not take it to school. My daughter will get a phone before high school-- when she's ready to go into high school. So at the same age.
And they see their peers really disappear into their screens at school. My daughter talks about friends who have lied to get access to social media, and that when she tries to socialize with them in between classes, they just stare at their screens. So it's impacting them.
Even if our household has its own rules-- and that's part of what this bill is about, too, is individual parents need to be encouraged. And we need to take collective action to do something about this, again, at the societal level. Because we don't want our children to be isolated. We don't want them to be the only ones without this technology. But at the same time, it's just important that we do this collectively.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, I hear you. What have you heard from educators or school administrators about cell phones in schools?
SANDRA FEIST: Yeah. Well, educators email me a lot telling me this is fabulous and sharing really impassioned pleas for more leadership, and more direction, and more support. Because, again, individual teachers are really struggling in the classroom. I've spoken with the principal at the school that my son will go to next year, when he goes into high school, and he also was really supportive.
And, they just came out with a new policy, and that was how we connected, as I said, I'd really love to see you go further than this. And he's like, I know. And so I think that we obviously, at the state level, can't identify every single permutation on how our cell phone policies impact individual students and communities. And that's left to the schools. But I think there is collective agreement that schools are disruptive, and problematic, and that we need to work together to do something more bold.
INTERVIEWER: Well, Representative Feist, thank you for joining us today. And thanks for your work.
SANDRA FEIST: Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
INTERVIEWER: That was Minnesota State Representative Sandra Feist from New Brighton. We are talking about how it is no secret that use of social media and smartphones has contributed to the mental health crisis teens in Minnesota are facing. But some teens, way ahead of this bill.
They're taking control of their mental health and focus by ditching smartphones altogether on purpose. I know, I can hear some parents listening just gasp-- what? It's a small, but growing, number of young people who have decided it's just not worth it to have a smartphone. Well, one of those people is Leo Huppke.
He's now a sophomore at University of Minnesota. And he recently wrote about his experience going without a smartphone or social media for the Minnesota Daily. Leo, thank you for being here.
LEO HUPPKE: Yes. Thank you for having me.
INTERVIEWER: Well, Leo, you have spent almost your whole life around cell phones. And you spent high school, like most of your peers, relying on a smartphone and social media. But you say how it affected your growth as a teen. How so?
LEO HUPPKE: Yeah. It was just hindering me in a lot of ways, I think. It was a constant source of stress, just being on my phone, checking social media. It sort of felt like, and I was really busy in high school, and it felt like another obligation. That was another task I had to do every day was check social media.
And it was something I was checking every day, multiple times a day. And it almost felt like a chore, to an extent.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, figure out how to post something clever and all of that. Tell me the story of how you ended up ditching your smartphone and social media.
LEO HUPPKE: Yeah. So I sort of started to dislike my phone more and more towards the end of high school. And I think it was just a source of drama, and stress, and what I mentioned before-- it was just an extra obligation on top of everything I was doing as a high school student. And so I found this phone online called the Light Phone ii.
And you could call and text, but it didn't have any other features. And it was this radical shift. And I kind of just wanted to go for it and see if I could do it. And so I asked my parents, and they said, absolutely not. And then I asked them a year later, and they said, OK, but you have to pay for it.
INTERVIEWER: OK.
LEO HUPPKE: Yeah, and I went ahead with it. And then I came into college with this new phone.
INTERVIEWER: So, Leo, if you were to ask anyone over the age of 40, they'd say, oh, it's easy not to have a smartphone as a teen, because they didn't exist when they were younger. But could you paint a picture of what it's like to not have a smartphone now?
LEO HUPPKE: Yeah. It's funny, I don't notice it that much just because I use my phone so little. I use it for calling and texting. And there's also a few extra features like a notes app and a music player. But it just doesn't really have a hold over my life anymore.
So I don't notice it too often. I'll admit there are things that are difficult, especially navigation. I can't call Ubers and Lyfts. And I do have to rely on usually looking at where I'm going beforehand or using other friends to help, which isn't always great. And it can be stressful, I'll admit. It's not a perfect solution, but I just feel a lot more focused with my schoolwork, and even in my social life, and just sort of in the world.
INTERVIEWER: Well, I think that sounds like there's a lot of wisdom in that. I imagine, if you're out in public on the bus or walking to class, and you see people who are maybe heads down on their smartphone or with their earbuds in, how does that strike you?
LEO HUPPKE: I can't tell you how many times I've almost had collisions with people. I'm expecting them to move, and then they don't, because they're on their phones. And it can be kind of depressing. You're sitting at the bus stop, and it's a beautiful day, and everyone's just on their phones.
And I'm kind of like, what are you doing? It's so nice out. And I think having this phone gives me permission just to enjoy those moments, and kind of step back, and not feel like I'm always working or I have to be doing something.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Pause and look up. Have you convinced anyone else to go without a smartphone or social media?
LEO HUPPKE: I have not. And generally, people seem to have a positive reaction when they see my phone, more so in college than when I introduced the idea in high school. But there's always that one thing that they're like, I can't go without maps. I can't go without Spotify that, I think, inhibits people from making the jump.
So no, I have not successfully convinced anyone. I've also not seeing anyone without one, without a smartphone, besides me. But I'm working on it.
INTERVIEWER: Well, a lot of people are hearing you right now. What do you think of the bill Representative Sandra Feist and I were just talking about that would help limit cell phone use in school?
LEO HUPPKE: I think it's a great idea. Actually, for the column I wrote for the Minnesota Daily, I talked to the principal of Maple Grove Middle School, and they completely banned smartphones during the school day. And there's been really positive effects of that.
I talked to the principal, and he said students are talking more. They're paying better attention in class. There's even a higher rate of assignments that are being turned in. So honestly, I wish my high school had taken it more seriously.
INTERVIEWER: Well, if Sandra Feist s still listening, I'm sure she's hearing you and nodding her head. Leo, thank you for taking time out of your day to talk with us about this.
LEO HUPPKE: Yeah, thank you for having me.
INTERVIEWER: That was University of Minnesota sophomore Leo Huppke.
In a moment, we'll talk with a student who has taken matters into his own hands and ditched his smartphone for good. But first, Representative Sandra Feist is here. She co-authored the bill on cell phones in school after she started reading about how cell phones are severely affecting the development of kids. Thank you for being here, Representative Feist.
SANDRA FEIST: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.
INTERVIEWER: So the bill you co-authored requires the Minnesota School Boards Association to develop a model policy that restricts cell phone use. And then the school boards across the state would either have to adopt that model policy, or they'd be required to write their own. Don't most schools already have policies on cell phones?
SANDRA FEIST: Yeah. We actually worked with the school stakeholders to update the language a bit. So the bill requires simply that schools have a policy. And the school association, specifically the two principals associations, are going to work to provide schools with strategies to minimize the impact of student behavior, mental health, and academic attainment. And the thought is that providing this type of guidance would give schools the ability to, perhaps, take more bold steps to get cell phones under control.
INTERVIEWER: Well, that sounds useful to have the people who are in the schools be the ones making that policy decision. Why not just let schools figure it out on a case-by-case basis?
SANDRA FEIST: Well, we know that this issue is really getting out of control, and that it's having a huge impact on just child well-being overall. And what I've heard from teachers, from principals in my district, my own kids' principals, is that it would be really helpful to provide a more sort of systemic approach to this issue. Oftentimes, it falls on individual teachers to create these policies and to enforce them. And so I think everyone is looking for a way to come together around the best approaches.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. What exactly is in this bill so far?
SANDRA FEIST: Yeah, so it's a very tame bill. And ultimately, it really is about elevating this issue and, again, bringing the schools together with the experts, with the school associations, to really look at, what are the best practices? So I just finished reading Jonathan Haidt's book, The Anxious Generation, talking about how cell phones rewire childhood.
And one of the things that he kind of left with at the book is that we need to speak up. Because when we don't see other people speaking up, then we don't really consider this the crisis that it truly is. And so I see this bill as one more way that we can collectively speak up and say that this is a huge issue that we need to address at the societal level.
INTERVIEWER: I hear you. I've been looking at some stats from the American Academy of Pediatrics, and rates of depression and anxiety in the US were pretty stable in the 2000s, but they rose more than 50% from 2010 to 2019. And the suicide rates rose 48% for adolescents ages 10 to 19. For girls 10 to 14, it rose 131%. That's a lot of numbers, and it's a lot of bad numbers.
But I know many doctors attribute this to the rise in smartphones and social media use amongst teens during that time. So is this bill addressing use of phones in schools the answer? Is this the answer to this vast societal issue?
SANDRA FEIST: Well, I think it's part of the answer. What we need to do is as we're creating these rules and restrictions around cell phone access, we also need to pair that with creating more opportunities for children to socialize with minimal parental and adult intervention. We need to give children the freedom that they've had in previous generations, that, over the past decades prior to having cell phones, we've sort of limited their ability to get out into the world, and to discover themselves, and to be empowered. And so I think we need to partner our approach to technology access with also affirming children's ability to really define themselves and to create relationships and navigate those relationships on their own.
INTERVIEWER: And I suspect you're speaking from personal experience. You have middle school aged kids, right?
SANDRA FEIST: I do. Two middle schoolers. It's a interesting phase, isn't it?
INTERVIEWER: So what are you thinking about for their development and screen time? How are you navigating that?
SANDRA FEIST: Well, it's hard, but I've been pretty opinionated about it. My son is 14, and we did give him a phone. He does not take it to school. My daughter will get a phone before high school-- when she's ready to go into high school. So at the same age.
And they see their peers really disappear into their screens at school. My daughter talks about friends who have lied to get access to social media, and that when she tries to socialize with them in between classes, they just stare at their screens. So it's impacting them.
Even if our household has its own rules-- and that's part of what this bill is about, too, is individual parents need to be encouraged. And we need to take collective action to do something about this, again, at the societal level. Because we don't want our children to be isolated. We don't want them to be the only ones without this technology. But at the same time, it's just important that we do this collectively.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, I hear you. What have you heard from educators or school administrators about cell phones in schools?
SANDRA FEIST: Yeah. Well, educators email me a lot telling me this is fabulous and sharing really impassioned pleas for more leadership, and more direction, and more support. Because, again, individual teachers are really struggling in the classroom. I've spoken with the principal at the school that my son will go to next year, when he goes into high school, and he also was really supportive.
And, they just came out with a new policy, and that was how we connected, as I said, I'd really love to see you go further than this. And he's like, I know. And so I think that we obviously, at the state level, can't identify every single permutation on how our cell phone policies impact individual students and communities. And that's left to the schools. But I think there is collective agreement that schools are disruptive, and problematic, and that we need to work together to do something more bold.
INTERVIEWER: Well, Representative Feist, thank you for joining us today. And thanks for your work.
SANDRA FEIST: Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
INTERVIEWER: That was Minnesota State Representative Sandra Feist from New Brighton. We are talking about how it is no secret that use of social media and smartphones has contributed to the mental health crisis teens in Minnesota are facing. But some teens, way ahead of this bill.
They're taking control of their mental health and focus by ditching smartphones altogether on purpose. I know, I can hear some parents listening just gasp-- what? It's a small, but growing, number of young people who have decided it's just not worth it to have a smartphone. Well, one of those people is Leo Huppke.
He's now a sophomore at University of Minnesota. And he recently wrote about his experience going without a smartphone or social media for the Minnesota Daily. Leo, thank you for being here.
LEO HUPPKE: Yes. Thank you for having me.
INTERVIEWER: Well, Leo, you have spent almost your whole life around cell phones. And you spent high school, like most of your peers, relying on a smartphone and social media. But you say how it affected your growth as a teen. How so?
LEO HUPPKE: Yeah. It was just hindering me in a lot of ways, I think. It was a constant source of stress, just being on my phone, checking social media. It sort of felt like, and I was really busy in high school, and it felt like another obligation. That was another task I had to do every day was check social media.
And it was something I was checking every day, multiple times a day. And it almost felt like a chore, to an extent.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, figure out how to post something clever and all of that. Tell me the story of how you ended up ditching your smartphone and social media.
LEO HUPPKE: Yeah. So I sort of started to dislike my phone more and more towards the end of high school. And I think it was just a source of drama, and stress, and what I mentioned before-- it was just an extra obligation on top of everything I was doing as a high school student. And so I found this phone online called the Light Phone ii.
And you could call and text, but it didn't have any other features. And it was this radical shift. And I kind of just wanted to go for it and see if I could do it. And so I asked my parents, and they said, absolutely not. And then I asked them a year later, and they said, OK, but you have to pay for it.
INTERVIEWER: OK.
LEO HUPPKE: Yeah, and I went ahead with it. And then I came into college with this new phone.
INTERVIEWER: So, Leo, if you were to ask anyone over the age of 40, they'd say, oh, it's easy not to have a smartphone as a teen, because they didn't exist when they were younger. But could you paint a picture of what it's like to not have a smartphone now?
LEO HUPPKE: Yeah. It's funny, I don't notice it that much just because I use my phone so little. I use it for calling and texting. And there's also a few extra features like a notes app and a music player. But it just doesn't really have a hold over my life anymore.
So I don't notice it too often. I'll admit there are things that are difficult, especially navigation. I can't call Ubers and Lyfts. And I do have to rely on usually looking at where I'm going beforehand or using other friends to help, which isn't always great. And it can be stressful, I'll admit. It's not a perfect solution, but I just feel a lot more focused with my schoolwork, and even in my social life, and just sort of in the world.
INTERVIEWER: Well, I think that sounds like there's a lot of wisdom in that. I imagine, if you're out in public on the bus or walking to class, and you see people who are maybe heads down on their smartphone or with their earbuds in, how does that strike you?
LEO HUPPKE: I can't tell you how many times I've almost had collisions with people. I'm expecting them to move, and then they don't, because they're on their phones. And it can be kind of depressing. You're sitting at the bus stop, and it's a beautiful day, and everyone's just on their phones.
And I'm kind of like, what are you doing? It's so nice out. And I think having this phone gives me permission just to enjoy those moments, and kind of step back, and not feel like I'm always working or I have to be doing something.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Pause and look up. Have you convinced anyone else to go without a smartphone or social media?
LEO HUPPKE: I have not. And generally, people seem to have a positive reaction when they see my phone, more so in college than when I introduced the idea in high school. But there's always that one thing that they're like, I can't go without maps. I can't go without Spotify that, I think, inhibits people from making the jump.
So no, I have not successfully convinced anyone. I've also not seeing anyone without one, without a smartphone, besides me. But I'm working on it.
INTERVIEWER: Well, a lot of people are hearing you right now. What do you think of the bill Representative Sandra Feist and I were just talking about that would help limit cell phone use in school?
LEO HUPPKE: I think it's a great idea. Actually, for the column I wrote for the Minnesota Daily, I talked to the principal of Maple Grove Middle School, and they completely banned smartphones during the school day. And there's been really positive effects of that.
I talked to the principal, and he said students are talking more. They're paying better attention in class. There's even a higher rate of assignments that are being turned in. So honestly, I wish my high school had taken it more seriously.
INTERVIEWER: Well, if Sandra Feist s still listening, I'm sure she's hearing you and nodding her head. Leo, thank you for taking time out of your day to talk with us about this.
LEO HUPPKE: Yeah, thank you for having me.
INTERVIEWER: That was University of Minnesota sophomore Leo Huppke.
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