Report: Number of kids in ICE detention has soared under Trump administration

[MUSIC PLAYING] KELLY GORDON: We're following several top stories on Minnesota Now today. I'm Kelly Gordon, in for Nina Moini. ProPublica has identified the two Customs and Border Patrol agents who shot at Alex Pretti as Jesus Ochoa and Raymundo Gutierrez. Those men have been put on leave. And five-year-old Liam Conejo Ramos and his father are back home in Minnesota after being released from the Dilley detention center in Texas.

But for families still there, DHS has confirmed active measles infections inside. We have two reporters here from the Marshall Project to help us understand all of this. Shannon Heffernan and Anna Flagg are journalists with the Marshall Project, which is a nonprofit news organization that covers the criminal justice system here in the US. They're here to talk about reporting on children and the federal law enforcement use of force. Thank you for both of you for being here.

ANNA FLAGG: Thank you for having us.

SHANNON HEFFERNAN: Thank you so much.

KELLY GORDON: Yes. Let's start with the data on child detentions during the Trump administration. And I'll mention that what you looked at did not include data from this year, right? We're not even talking about what we're currently seeing out of Minnesota. But Anna, what does the data show?

ANNA FLAGG: That's right. The data that we looked at, which was the most recent that is available, looked at January through October, the middle of October. And we examined, on any given day, the number of children that were being held in ICE detention. And we found that on an average day, 170 children were being held behind bars by ICE. And for comparison, in the prior 16 months under the Biden administration, that number was 25.

KELLY GORDON: Wow. So is that what stood out to you, was this sharp increase, the uptick in the number of children in detention?

ANNA FLAGG: Yes, absolutely. That is a huge rise. That's a rise of six-fold. So these facilities are really not designed to be taking care of children. And the idea of that many children being inside them on any given day, I think, is really concerning.

KELLY GORDON: Yeah, so based on your reporting and other reporting you're seeing out of Minnesota, how do you think the number of children in ICE custody has changed this year over the first few months of 2026?

SHANNON HEFFERNAN: It's really hard for us--

ANNA FLAGG: I think, no, what--

KELLY GORDON: OK, go ahead.

ANNA FLAGG: --has happened so far in 2026-- in part because the government hasn't published data that it usually publishes on its detention website. This is data that they're mandated by Congress to publish. That said, as you all know there in Minnesota, we've seen reports of children getting arrested there, in Chicago and in Portland. So my guess is that this is a trend that has been continuing.

KELLY GORDON: Right. So, Shannon, a question for you. The story of the detainment of five-year-old Liam Ramos, who came from Columbia Heights here in the Twin Cities, at that Texas facility gained, of course, international attention. He's now back home with his parents in Minnesota. But I know you've talked to attorneys and advocates in your reporting, Shannon. According to them, how common is Liam's situation?

SHANNON HEFFERNAN: Yeah, I think this is one thing that was really striking. Understandably, that case got a lot of attention. I think the images people saw really were emotionally arresting for them. But people we spoke to who worked near the detention center as advocates said, this is really common. They see kids like Liam come in all the time.

And some of them are held for short stretches, like we saw with Liam. Others have been held there for months, for many months, in some cases. So I think it's really important that even though Liam has been released, that people understand there's still a lot of kids there, and the conditions they're left in are often really troubling.

KELLY GORDON: Yeah, tell us a little bit more about the conditions. Because when we did some reporting, we were hearing that Liam was reported as being lethargic and not eating well. I mean, is his case typical? Or what are the conditions like for children at Dilley?

SHANNON HEFFERNAN: Yeah, so in court filings, parents have talked about how the food is infested with worms, how they're having trouble getting access to water that is drinkable. They say the water that comes out of the tap smells foul, tastes bad. Parents struggle to get bottled water to mix with formula, which is really essential if you're using a bottle for an infant. They've also just talked about the psychological distress for these children being in detention, children who were previously potty trained wetting themselves, children hitting themselves in the face.

And now-- this is brand new news-- we've heard that there's a measles outbreak there. And I think that's troubling for two reasons. First of all, measles itself can be a very serious illness, and children are in danger of getting that at the facility. But also, because this virus is spreading, the facility has been put into lockdown, so people aren't able to go about their activities in the same way. They're going to be kept more tightly in their rooms. We know from COVID, that was really, really hard for adult prisoners to endure when that was unfolding, so I can't imagine what that would be like for a child.

KELLY GORDON: Right. So Shannon, I know that you did some reporting on COVID-19 in prison environments. What risks do you expect to come out of the situation that they're dealing with now with measles lockdown?

SHANNON HEFFERNAN: Yeah, I mean, well, these are congregate environments. It's very difficult to control a highly contagious virus inside those conditions. Even if you have people in their rooms, you have staff going between those rooms, right? It's a very, very difficult situation to contain. And then the measures you take for containment themselves, as I mentioned before, can be really troubling for folks.

So I think it's really hard to find a good solution. I'm really interested to see what advocates are going to be calling for in these circumstances. We know during COVID, there was a big push to release people. Because when you have fewer people inside, it's easier to spread people out and control the virus.

KELLY GORDON: Right. Anna, I'm thinking, too, about just the general health of children being held in immigration detention. Are they vaccinated? Are they healthy? Are they more likely to get sick when they're held in these centers?

ANNA FLAGG: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think COVID teaches us a lot about that as well. Having such close quarters, not having access to proper medical care, it's very difficult to stay hygienic, make sure everybody is washing their hands, making sure the food is safe. All of these things are disease drivers. And as Shannon was mentioning, there were a lot of calls during COVID to release people. And I think that's something that people need to be thinking about right now as well. In many cases, these are families, children, people that pose no safety risk to the public.

KELLY GORDON: Right. I also, before we have to let you go, want to talk about your reporting on the use-of-force incidents among federal law enforcement. So Shannon, I understand you recently analyzed ICE and Border Patrol agent use of force. How many incidents like that did you look at? And what did you find?

ANNA FLAGG: So we didn't do any comprehensive calculation of the number of people who've had force used against them. I will say that The Trace has done some really excellent work on this. And they found 20 incidents of immigration agents shooting people since Trump's operation-- shot at people, I'm sorry-- Since Trump's operation began last year.

Now, we did look at a smattering of incidents and notice patterns in those-- for example, as you've seen there in Minnesota, incidents where it's fairly common for the official message to quickly be contradicted by videos and witnesses, and then this other troubling trend of, after a shooting, the agents not rendering medical aid, and in some cases, even preventing or delaying others who are on scene and able to deliver aid, not being able to do so quickly.

KELLY GORDON: Hmm, OK. I know that ProPublica also reported that both of these agents that shot Alex Pretti were veterans of the Border Patrol, and one was with eight years under his belt, another with 12. A lot of people have pointed to a lack of training for agents in Minnesota, but these particular agents aren't new to the force. So what can you tell us about use-of-force training for ICE and CPB agents?

ANNA FLAGG: I'm not super familiar with the training they get in and of themselves, but I've covered police shootings for a long time. And what I can tell you is, while training may be able to help in some specific circumstances, a pattern we've seen is when you have armed officers in tense situations with people, you're going to have the chance of someone getting shot at. So I think that thatl should really raise the question on if training in and of itself is going to be enough to stop this from happening.

KELLY GORDON: So those were the Marshall Project journalists, Shannon Heffernan and Anna Flagg.