Minnesota’s ‘vouching’ voting system more secure than other states,’ state’s top election official says
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Minnesota is under the microscope after a viral video over the weekend claimed to show fraud in local daycare centers.
Now, a half-century-old state law that allows a voter to vouch for another person on Election Day is the latest subject of criticism online.
Elon Musk, the world's richest man, called the policy, "Made for fraud."
MPR News host Clay Masters spoke with Minnesota Secretary of State Steve Simon about the fraud allegations.
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Press play above to listen, or read a transcript of their conversation below, edited for clarity.
Can you explain how this law works in practice?
In practice, it provides two layers, not the usual one, of security. So, it's actually more secure than what other states have. Here's what it's meant for.
To register to vote in Minnesota, you need to show two things: You are who you say you are —that's identity. And you live where you say you live — that's residence. What you use a vouching for is really the residence part. That's where it's used most commonly.
It's used in places like assisted living homes. It's used in situations where someone just moved in September and October, and they might not have an ID or papers showing their address.
My own father, in the 1998 gubernatorial election, was vouched for because my parents downsized, they moved to a condo. They didn't yet have a utility bill or other means of showing that they live where they live. So what vouching allows is for a registered voter in a precinct to vouch that a particular person lives where they say they live.
So in the case of my dad, he knocks on the door of a neighbor, his new neighbor, and said, “Hey, can you vouch for me?” Which means you go to the polling place, you sign an oath under penalty of perjury saying that this person in the case — in this instance, my father — does he really live where he says he lives?
He still has to independently show his identity who he is, but in terms of where he lives, that's what he did in 1998. And this happens from time to time in senior assisted living facilities. It's quite common for someone to have moved from a home or in some place and now they're in a new situation and they don't yet have a driver's license or something else that reflects where they live. So that's how it's used in Minnesota.
So now I'm just wondering here, does the terminology — of saying, ‘Yeah, I vouch for this person’ — is that something for folks to poke holes into, as we've been seeing it play out online?
Well, I think to the extent people just hear the term and don't know what it really is. To hear some of the criticism you're hearing from Elon Musk and others, they don't know what it is. They hear the term and they jump to all sorts of conclusions. That's not how it works in Minnesota.
I should point out that in many states — including our neighbor, South Dakota — they only have one line of security, meaning in the case of my father or in the case of someone in assisted living, they just sign an affidavit saying, “Yes, I really live where I say I live.”
In Minnesota, we go beyond that, and vouching is a second layer of security. It's saying, “That's not enough. You've got to get a neighbor to say that you live where you say you live.”
How do you make sure that the voter is a citizen through this? I mean, is there — as Elon Musk and others have said — opportunity for large amounts of fraud under this system?
No, I don't think so. And the proof is in looking backwards.
Vouching, first of all, isn't used that often. It was used in the last election, I think, 0.6 or 0.7 percent of the time, and three-quarters of that 0.6 or 0.7 (percent) are people who were already registered to vote. They're not newly registered. They're the person moving into assisted living, they're my father, they're other people. They're already in the system.
So, it's really a tiny amount anyway, and we have the systems in place at the local level. All of these transactions are logged, by the way; you can see who vouches for whom, and you can see the attestation, you know, the sworn affidavit.
And so I invite people to go and look at those records, if they can discover them at the local level. They're all out there, and people can see how this is done and how clean it has been in Minnesota.
Secretary Simon, are you aware of other states that have similar laws?
Yes, there are others that have similar laws. I'm not totally familiar with their terminology, but they have something similar as well.
But as I mentioned, there are a number of states that have just one level of security, as opposed to our two levels of security, where you need to find another human being in your precinct who's a registered voter to swear and then log all those records to swear that the person they're vouching for really does live in that precinct.
Right now, these allegations of fraud are just talk on the internet, but President Trump has already taken action against Minnesota day cares by withholding federal funding. Are you concerned that your state agency, your office, could be targeted next?
Well, anything's possible, and I don't discount it. All I can say is that our system in Minnesota is fundamentally fair, accurate, honest and secure.
We know that the numbers show that, and that's in part why Minnesotans vote at such sky-high levels year after year after year. There are many reasons, but surely one of them is in their gut, in their heart, know that it's fundamentally honest — never perfect — and there are always people having ideas about what laws we should get rid of or what laws we should add, of course.
But, at its core, people know that it's an honest system.
