The Sanford-Fairview merger has been delayed again. What happens now?
Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison convenes the first of several meetings on the merger proposal by Fairview Health Services and Sanford Health in St. Paul on Jan. 10.
Michelle Wiley | MPR News
The Sanford Health and Fairview Health Services merger has been delayed.
On Friday, both health providers announced they will delay their proposed merger until the end of May. Originally, they planned to wrap up the deal by March 31.
Together, Sanford and Fairview include nearly 80,000 employees. The Minnesota Nurses Association represents thousands of those employees. It has opposed the merger since it was announced late last year.
Minnesota Nurses Association President Mary Turner spoke to MPR News host Cathy Wurzer about where they might go from here.
Use the audio player above to listen to the full conversation.
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Audio transcript
[MUSIC PLAYING] INTERVIEWER: And this is a story you may have missed, the Sanford Health and Fairview Health services merger has been delayed. Friday both health providers announced they will delay their proposed merger until the end of May. Originally, they planned to wrap up the deal by March 31 st. Together Sanford and Fairview include nearly 80,000 employees. The Minnesota Nurses Association represents thousands of those employees. It has opposed the merger since it was announced late last year. Minnesota Nurses Association President Mary Turner is on the line right now. Welcome to the show.
MARY TURNER: Thank you for having me.
INTERVIEWER: As you know Attorney General Ellison wanted Fairview and Sanford to slow down the process. His office is still looking for information from both parties. Looks like that is going to happen here when it comes to the slowdown. How does the delay in the merger affect your position on it?
MARY TURNER: Well, that gives us more time to encourage our nurses and actually the people of Minnesota to give feedback to the Attorney General's office to give feedback to our legislators. It gives our legislature time to potentially get a law passed where I believe that they want to put it in the hands of the commissioner of health that would be able to make a final decision on whether it should go forward. We are like you had said, we're totally against it.
INTERVIEWER: I know the MNA has been lobbying at the legislature. What's your pitch to lawmakers to slow this or stop this?
MARY TURNER: I've been traveling this whole state from one end to another for over a decade. And I have been to multiple city council where I have begged them not to sell their local hospital or clinic to what we would call corporate health care. And the reason I have is because whenever these mergers happen or corporate health care seems to take over, towns lose their health care access.
We have so many hospitals across Minnesota and across this nation in rural America that have been closed, and then it decreases the access. And this is my big concern is because you take away the health care facility in a town and then the town dies. And it's like-- and so my big push-- and the thing is that they're promising better access.
But the thing is that their better access is telehealth. It's not hands-on care that you get from doctors and nurses that live in the community, it is telehealth. And I'm sorry but unless they fix the broadband issue, to sit and promise health care by telehealth is unrealistic and not fair to the people of Minnesota.
INTERVIEWER: However, Mary, as you know, telehealth seems to be the trend of the future here. And as that train is on the track, how does the MNA work to make sure that you are represented in this trend?
MARY TURNER: I'm not saying that telehealth doesn't have a purpose. And all I'm saying is that communities-- this came up when I was on the Biden COVID Equity Task Force, this whole telehealth. And one thing that was very apparent is that you have to have the infrastructure, and you need to have the appropriate broadband.
Because it starts off everyone's going to be able to make telehealth visits by their computer or whatever. Well, then eventually it gets to well, maybe it'll just be a phone call because they don't have the broadband, they don't have the technology to be able to accommodate it. So it definitely has its purpose, but so do having hands-on care.
And I made it to two of the listening sessions for the attorney general. And at both of those I advocated for the elderly in our communities and their ability and to maneuver telehealth, and the fact that the elderly need to thrive and they need to be with their community. They need to be with the people in their community that give them hands-on care and care for them.
INTERVIEWER: Can I ask you a little bit about your union recently negotiated a new contract with Fairview. Now, if this merger goes through, have you received any word about whether that contract would be recognized if the merger goes through?
MARY TURNER: It was. There is no guarantees that it would continue. I believe, I think, through the end of the year or something like that in the healthiest wanting to know if our contracts are guaranteed, there is no guarantee, there is no guarantee if it all goes over to Sanford, yeah.
INTERVIEWER: OK, so no guarantee from what you understand. Have you heard anything in the public hearings around the state of Minnesota or the legislative hearings or lawmakers for that matter when you've been talking to them that maybe have you possibly changed your view of the merger?
MARY TURNER: None whatsoever. I have the same concerns that as far as the U of M, we have one of the top programs in the country to educate and train doctors. And I share the U of M's concerns, the University system's concerns for all of the decision making moving to Sioux Falls, South Dakota where I believe their medical program doesn't rank anywhere near ours.
And so there is nothing that I have heard that would make me convinced that this is a good thing for Minnesota. We have some of the top health care in the country. One of them being the reputation that not only Rochester but our University system has in training and research, but also the fact that 85% of our nurses in our hospitals are union nurses.
And what that means is per their contract, they're able to have a seat at the table to advocate for the people of Minnesota. And I will go to my grave saying that is one of the main reasons why we have such fantastic health care in Minnesota.
INTERVIEWER: So Mary, the attorney general and Federal Trade Commission will decide at the end of May whether this merger is legal. Have you been thinking about this here at all? What options might you and other opponents have to try to stop it?
MARY TURNER: That is where I understand that at the legislature, representative Biermann is putting forth legislation that would ultimately put the decision into the hands of the health commissioner. So that's where the extra two months allows the legislature to have more time to potentially come up with at least another what they would call roadblock. I have yet to hear anybody that's all for this idea.
INTERVIEWER: With about a minute and a half left here, Mary Turner, this morning I understand lawmakers introduced a bipartisan bill aimed at helping with nurse retention, which I know the MNA supports that bill. What would it do exactly?
MARY TURNER: Keeping Nurses at the Bedside Act. And so it helps with getting more nursing instructors, it helps with mental health services, but most importantly, it helps to hold our hospitals accountable for the staffing levels. The new addition this year compared to the one last year is that they would have to make public what their staffing levels are, and also have our concern for safe staffing, we would have a reporting system that would be known to the public about our concerns.
Right now at MNA we use what's called Concern for Safe Staffing forms. We have had what, almost 8,400 Concern for Safe Staffing forms in the last year. Each one of those forms is a unsafe situation that the nurses have found themselves in. And so those are some big things.
And here's the thing, is that if we can make it transparent what our staffing is like, then hopefully that motivates them to do what they need to do to get the staffing. And as our hospitals get better staffed, nurses will be drawn to those hospitals, to work in those hospitals that are better staffed.
INTERVIEWER: All right. Mary Turner, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much.
MARY TURNER: Thank you.
INTERVIEWER: We've been talking to the Minnesota Nurses Association's President Mary Turner. She was talking about the proposed merger between Sioux Falls based Sanford Health and Fairview Health Services, which is headquartered in Minneapolis. And the companies announced Friday they will delay their plans to merge until the end of May.
By the way, this afternoon on All Things Considered, Tom Crann will talk with ICU nurse and union rep Kelly Urness about his Future of Us Series that looks at how a pandemic, a police murder, and a city on fire have changed us in our path forward. That's on All Things Considered starting at 3:00 o'clock this afternoon.
MARY TURNER: Thank you for having me.
INTERVIEWER: As you know Attorney General Ellison wanted Fairview and Sanford to slow down the process. His office is still looking for information from both parties. Looks like that is going to happen here when it comes to the slowdown. How does the delay in the merger affect your position on it?
MARY TURNER: Well, that gives us more time to encourage our nurses and actually the people of Minnesota to give feedback to the Attorney General's office to give feedback to our legislators. It gives our legislature time to potentially get a law passed where I believe that they want to put it in the hands of the commissioner of health that would be able to make a final decision on whether it should go forward. We are like you had said, we're totally against it.
INTERVIEWER: I know the MNA has been lobbying at the legislature. What's your pitch to lawmakers to slow this or stop this?
MARY TURNER: I've been traveling this whole state from one end to another for over a decade. And I have been to multiple city council where I have begged them not to sell their local hospital or clinic to what we would call corporate health care. And the reason I have is because whenever these mergers happen or corporate health care seems to take over, towns lose their health care access.
We have so many hospitals across Minnesota and across this nation in rural America that have been closed, and then it decreases the access. And this is my big concern is because you take away the health care facility in a town and then the town dies. And it's like-- and so my big push-- and the thing is that they're promising better access.
But the thing is that their better access is telehealth. It's not hands-on care that you get from doctors and nurses that live in the community, it is telehealth. And I'm sorry but unless they fix the broadband issue, to sit and promise health care by telehealth is unrealistic and not fair to the people of Minnesota.
INTERVIEWER: However, Mary, as you know, telehealth seems to be the trend of the future here. And as that train is on the track, how does the MNA work to make sure that you are represented in this trend?
MARY TURNER: I'm not saying that telehealth doesn't have a purpose. And all I'm saying is that communities-- this came up when I was on the Biden COVID Equity Task Force, this whole telehealth. And one thing that was very apparent is that you have to have the infrastructure, and you need to have the appropriate broadband.
Because it starts off everyone's going to be able to make telehealth visits by their computer or whatever. Well, then eventually it gets to well, maybe it'll just be a phone call because they don't have the broadband, they don't have the technology to be able to accommodate it. So it definitely has its purpose, but so do having hands-on care.
And I made it to two of the listening sessions for the attorney general. And at both of those I advocated for the elderly in our communities and their ability and to maneuver telehealth, and the fact that the elderly need to thrive and they need to be with their community. They need to be with the people in their community that give them hands-on care and care for them.
INTERVIEWER: Can I ask you a little bit about your union recently negotiated a new contract with Fairview. Now, if this merger goes through, have you received any word about whether that contract would be recognized if the merger goes through?
MARY TURNER: It was. There is no guarantees that it would continue. I believe, I think, through the end of the year or something like that in the healthiest wanting to know if our contracts are guaranteed, there is no guarantee, there is no guarantee if it all goes over to Sanford, yeah.
INTERVIEWER: OK, so no guarantee from what you understand. Have you heard anything in the public hearings around the state of Minnesota or the legislative hearings or lawmakers for that matter when you've been talking to them that maybe have you possibly changed your view of the merger?
MARY TURNER: None whatsoever. I have the same concerns that as far as the U of M, we have one of the top programs in the country to educate and train doctors. And I share the U of M's concerns, the University system's concerns for all of the decision making moving to Sioux Falls, South Dakota where I believe their medical program doesn't rank anywhere near ours.
And so there is nothing that I have heard that would make me convinced that this is a good thing for Minnesota. We have some of the top health care in the country. One of them being the reputation that not only Rochester but our University system has in training and research, but also the fact that 85% of our nurses in our hospitals are union nurses.
And what that means is per their contract, they're able to have a seat at the table to advocate for the people of Minnesota. And I will go to my grave saying that is one of the main reasons why we have such fantastic health care in Minnesota.
INTERVIEWER: So Mary, the attorney general and Federal Trade Commission will decide at the end of May whether this merger is legal. Have you been thinking about this here at all? What options might you and other opponents have to try to stop it?
MARY TURNER: That is where I understand that at the legislature, representative Biermann is putting forth legislation that would ultimately put the decision into the hands of the health commissioner. So that's where the extra two months allows the legislature to have more time to potentially come up with at least another what they would call roadblock. I have yet to hear anybody that's all for this idea.
INTERVIEWER: With about a minute and a half left here, Mary Turner, this morning I understand lawmakers introduced a bipartisan bill aimed at helping with nurse retention, which I know the MNA supports that bill. What would it do exactly?
MARY TURNER: Keeping Nurses at the Bedside Act. And so it helps with getting more nursing instructors, it helps with mental health services, but most importantly, it helps to hold our hospitals accountable for the staffing levels. The new addition this year compared to the one last year is that they would have to make public what their staffing levels are, and also have our concern for safe staffing, we would have a reporting system that would be known to the public about our concerns.
Right now at MNA we use what's called Concern for Safe Staffing forms. We have had what, almost 8,400 Concern for Safe Staffing forms in the last year. Each one of those forms is a unsafe situation that the nurses have found themselves in. And so those are some big things.
And here's the thing, is that if we can make it transparent what our staffing is like, then hopefully that motivates them to do what they need to do to get the staffing. And as our hospitals get better staffed, nurses will be drawn to those hospitals, to work in those hospitals that are better staffed.
INTERVIEWER: All right. Mary Turner, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much.
MARY TURNER: Thank you.
INTERVIEWER: We've been talking to the Minnesota Nurses Association's President Mary Turner. She was talking about the proposed merger between Sioux Falls based Sanford Health and Fairview Health Services, which is headquartered in Minneapolis. And the companies announced Friday they will delay their plans to merge until the end of May.
By the way, this afternoon on All Things Considered, Tom Crann will talk with ICU nurse and union rep Kelly Urness about his Future of Us Series that looks at how a pandemic, a police murder, and a city on fire have changed us in our path forward. That's on All Things Considered starting at 3:00 o'clock this afternoon.
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