Non-farming landlords control a significant amount of land. Some want to use it to help curb climate change
In November 2022, Meg and Glenn Nielsen visit her family's farmland, where they are working with a grazer to transition corn and soy fields into regenerative pasture.
Courtesy of Meg Nielsen
Land use, including agriculture and forestry, has become Minnesota’s No. 2 source of carbon emissions, after transportation. And one group you might not think of has some decision-making power to help reduce that pollution: non-farming landowners.
Meg Nielsen is part of a group called Climate Land Leaders, which recruits and trains landowners to try to store carbon and reduce emissions by planting trees and taking care of soil. She joined MPR News Host Cathy Wurzer to talk about changes she is making on her family farmland.
Nielsen says the first lessons she learned from her father was how to treat the soil. Now, her farmland is half corn and soybeans and half regenerative grazing, which helps build back healthy soil.
The issue is soil erosion. Runoff water can carry nitrogen and pollute rivers and lakes. Planting trees and prairie provide a climate solution.
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The work can also be emotional, Nielsen said.
“Land is just an emotional issue. It’s where you come from … it’s where we all come from and it’s where we end up in the end. Our corn and soybeans renter wasn’t really happy when we took 50 acres from his purview and gave it to somebody who’s going to be raising sheep and cattle on it.”
But it worked out in the end, she said. Her goal is to “help preserve the earth for those who want to care for it,” including herself. And that gives her hope.
Nielsen and her husband are both 75 years old, and she isn’t ignoring the fact that her time may be limited. She says she hopes that in 50 years, her farm continues to be a refuge for pheasants, small game rabbits and deer. She hopes the trees they are planting now will be homes for pollinators and that it will be a place people visit and say, “wow, we thought she was crazy when she started this, but maybe she wasn’t.”
Use the audio player above to listen to the full conversation.
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Audio transcript
CATHY WURZER: So we talked a little bit about this yesterday. We were talking about land use, including agriculture and forestry. Land use has become Minnesota's number two source of carbon emissions after transportation. And one group you might not suspect has some decision-making power to help reduce that pollution-- non-farming landowners.
Now, yesterday we talk with Meg Nielsen. She's part of a group called Climate Land Leaders, which recruits and trains landowners to reduce emissions or store carbon on their land. She's back on the line to talk about the changes she's made on her family's land, which is in Southern Minnesota. Meg, it was fun talking to you yesterday. Welcome back.
MEG NIELSEN: Yeah. Thanks. I'm glad to be back today.
CATHY WURZER: We talked about your parents' farm yesterday. Your dad used to have livestock before he switched to corn and soybeans. And then he stopped farming right before he died. So I'm kind of wondering here, what did you learn from your dad, watching those changes that he made?
MEG NIELSEN: Well, I think what I learned from him early on had to do with how he treated the soil. And he rotated the crops. Every year, there would be a different crop on the field. He planted hay for the cattle. The cattle were out there. They were putting down natural fertilizer.
And these were all good things. They held the soil in place. And the soil looked much different than when I was growing up than it does now. It was much more dense back then. And it's now a lot sandier and more likely to be eroded by the corn and soybeans.
So corn and soybeans. He began renting the land out when I was probably in high school or college. And from then on, there was a renter who came and did the farm work. And from then on, it went more into corn and soybeans with less rotation. No more cattle. These were probably all moves that weren't so good for the soil.
CATHY WURZER: Ah. OK. And so then enter you after your dad died. And the family still owns the land. You talked yesterday about how you switched part of your land from corn and soybeans to regenerative grazing, which is, you're really trying to build healthy soil back up, right?
MEG NIELSEN: That's right. Yeah. We actually had the opportunity to walk our land when we were first beginning to get into this process. And what we noticed was there were a lot of gullies, a lot of places where the soil had eroded and water finds its way. The first thing you want to do is protect and keep water from running off because the water carries nitrogen. And it carries it right into the rivers and the lakes and the streams, and it pollutes that.
So the best thing you can do is to plant trees and permanent grasses like prairie. Those are the top natural climate solutions right now. It's good for the water. It's good for the air. And it's good for biodiversity as well. And that's what Climate Land Leaders has really helped us to learn about and to do.
CATHY WURZER: How do you deal with your renter, though, who, I'm thinking, probably really likes doing what he's doing?
MEG NIELSEN: He does really like what he's doing. And we had to leave part of our land in corn and soybeans just because, like I said yesterday, we need to pay the taxes and our long-term care insurance. But we really want to get the biodiversity thing going.
So land is such an emotional issue. It's where you come from. It's where we all come from. And it's where we all end up in the end, you know? Everybody has a sense of place. And everybody, that's important to them. So that makes it a really emotional issue.
Our corn-and-soybeans renter said, well, it's your land. You can do what you want with it. But he wasn't really happy when we took 50 acres from his purview and gave it to somebody who's going to be raising sheep and cattle on it.
CATHY WURZER: Mmm. Mm-hmm. But he understood though.
MEG NIELSEN: He understands. And that's what people will often tell you. It's your land, and you can do what you want with it. And that is true. But it's kind of like the guy in the cabin in the boat, and he's chopping a hole in the floor. Well, it's his cabin. He can do what he wants with it. But one only hopes that he will do something that is not detrimental to everybody else.
CATHY WURZER: So talk to me about certain farming practices. You mentioned this. Of course, you're grazing. You're doing grazing right now. You also talked, I believe, about planting cover crops that can help lower land's carbon footprint, right?
But this all takes time and energy. So I'm wondering here, when it comes to negotiating and banding together, you and other landowners, to have more of a climate-minded requirements to your folks who are leasing your land, how do you tackle that? How do you explain this?
MEG NIELSEN: Well, yeah, how do you tackle it? Well, that's why this group has been so important to us, because it's a group of people who have so much expertise. Some of them have so much more information, so much more expertise, so much more experience than my husband and I do. We're coming to this from teaching and church professions. And we don't know much about farming.
You really have to be in there, communicate with each other, be not afraid to say, I don't know how to do this. Can you help me? You have to keep good communication lines going with your local soil and conservation district office. You have to be willing to take advantage of some programs that are out there. And this is a great time, actually, to do that because there is funding and government programs available.
CATHY WURZER: And the group helps you wend your way through those government programs, which can be pretty complicated.
MEG NIELSEN: Right. It can be, although we have found the people at the Freeborn County offices just really super willing to help. And I think that's pretty much the experience across the board because these are people who want to see farmers succeed.
And oftentimes, the people in Climate Land Leaders have said, well, have you tried the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Area? Have you have you called them? Have you talked to them? They might have funding available. Or have you gone into CRP? Have you looked into that?
And everybody is really willing to help. It's been really heartening to us because this is a hopeful thing, to find out that there are other people doing the same thing that you're doing and that there is support for it. If you're just off on your own, you're kind of tempted to think, I can't do anything.
And you fall into despair because this is-- the climate is on the edge. We're on the edge of something that is irreversible. But just to know that there are other people out there who want to preserve the Earth, who want to care for it, that's just so important to us. It gives us hope.
CATHY WURZER: Thank you. And I appreciate that. What do you hope your farmland looks like in 50 years from now?
MEG NIELSEN: [LAUGHS] Well, I won't be here to see it. I don't even know if I'll be here to see the end of the CRP contracts we signed this year for 15 years because my husband and I are both 75. But we hope that it will be a refuge, that it will be a place where there will be pheasants and small game rabbits and deer. And we hope that those trees that we're planting will be a home for bees and pollinators and birds, birds that we haven't seen in a long time, like meadowlarks that have just totally disappeared from the landscape.
We hope it'll be a place with some real biodiversity, where maybe some crops like elderberries will be grown, or hazelnuts, and that it'll be some place that people come and they'll think-- they'll look at it, and they'll think, wow, we thought she was crazy when she started this. But I guess maybe she wasn't. [LAUGHS]
CATHY WURZER: Do your kids plan to continue the work?
MEG NIELSEN: They do. They do. Yeah, we're lucky. We have three kids, and they're all into it up to their eyebrows. So that's helpful.
CATHY WURZER: And you mentioned the trees yesterday. And I'm trying to get a picture as to where the trees are and how many. Tell me where they are.
MEG NIELSEN: Well, yeah, we we're planting 600 trees--
CATHY WURZER: That's right.
MEG NIELSEN: --this weekend. And like I said, we're 75. And we aren't going to be able to do this on our own. We are renting a tree planter from the Soil & Water Conservation District Office. And our grazier is helping us. He's got a tractor.
And we're just having a little trouble finding some people to help us because while our kids are all behind us, one is in New York. And the other two are busy with jobs and can't come to help us. So yeah. So we got to find some help. If you want to come down and help us plant trees this weekend, we got a spot for you.
CATHY WURZER: Well, we might have to-- maybe if folks contact Minnesota Now and they want to know where you are, we can put them in touch with you. How does that sound?
MEG NIELSEN: Oh, that would be great.
CATHY WURZER: There you go. Our public service to you, Meg. [LAUGHS] I appreciate--
MEG NIELSEN: Well, thank you, and--
CATHY WURZER: --what you're doing. Go ahead.
MEG NIELSEN: Thanks. I just wanted to invite anybody who's interested in working to alleviate climate change with their land because, like you said, it's a big producer of greenhouse gases right now. They can check out Climate Land Leaders at climatelandleaders.org.
CATHY WURZER: All right.
MEG NIELSEN: Just wanted to put in a plug for that great organization that's been so helpful to us.
CATHY WURZER: Well, Meg Nielsen, I wish you will this weekend. Who knows? Maybe a couple of MPR listeners in the Freeborn County area will come on over to help you plant 600 trees. [LAUGHS]
MEG NIELSEN: Yes, that would be wonderful.
CATHY WURZER: Yes.
MEG NIELSEN: Have them call me.
CATHY WURZER: I wish you well. Thank you so much.
MEG NIELSEN: All right, thank you. Great to be on.
CATHY WURZER: Likewise. Thanks for being here. Meg Nielsen lives in Wisconsin. As I mentioned, owns farmland in Southern Minnesota-- Freeborn County, to be specific. And tomorrow, here on the program, we're going to talk to an Ojibwe farmer about bringing back bison and the challenges of farming on tribal trust land.
Say, and by the way, we heard from a listener named Jim yesterday who was listening. And he points out that folks who own family forests, as compared to family farms, have to choose between cutting those trees for income or letting them continue to become old-growth forests for generations. He says the tax level is higher and incentive programs are fewer when it comes to maintaining forests over farmland, which is a good point. So thank you, Jim. We'll have to dig into that topic at a future date.
Now, yesterday we talk with Meg Nielsen. She's part of a group called Climate Land Leaders, which recruits and trains landowners to reduce emissions or store carbon on their land. She's back on the line to talk about the changes she's made on her family's land, which is in Southern Minnesota. Meg, it was fun talking to you yesterday. Welcome back.
MEG NIELSEN: Yeah. Thanks. I'm glad to be back today.
CATHY WURZER: We talked about your parents' farm yesterday. Your dad used to have livestock before he switched to corn and soybeans. And then he stopped farming right before he died. So I'm kind of wondering here, what did you learn from your dad, watching those changes that he made?
MEG NIELSEN: Well, I think what I learned from him early on had to do with how he treated the soil. And he rotated the crops. Every year, there would be a different crop on the field. He planted hay for the cattle. The cattle were out there. They were putting down natural fertilizer.
And these were all good things. They held the soil in place. And the soil looked much different than when I was growing up than it does now. It was much more dense back then. And it's now a lot sandier and more likely to be eroded by the corn and soybeans.
So corn and soybeans. He began renting the land out when I was probably in high school or college. And from then on, there was a renter who came and did the farm work. And from then on, it went more into corn and soybeans with less rotation. No more cattle. These were probably all moves that weren't so good for the soil.
CATHY WURZER: Ah. OK. And so then enter you after your dad died. And the family still owns the land. You talked yesterday about how you switched part of your land from corn and soybeans to regenerative grazing, which is, you're really trying to build healthy soil back up, right?
MEG NIELSEN: That's right. Yeah. We actually had the opportunity to walk our land when we were first beginning to get into this process. And what we noticed was there were a lot of gullies, a lot of places where the soil had eroded and water finds its way. The first thing you want to do is protect and keep water from running off because the water carries nitrogen. And it carries it right into the rivers and the lakes and the streams, and it pollutes that.
So the best thing you can do is to plant trees and permanent grasses like prairie. Those are the top natural climate solutions right now. It's good for the water. It's good for the air. And it's good for biodiversity as well. And that's what Climate Land Leaders has really helped us to learn about and to do.
CATHY WURZER: How do you deal with your renter, though, who, I'm thinking, probably really likes doing what he's doing?
MEG NIELSEN: He does really like what he's doing. And we had to leave part of our land in corn and soybeans just because, like I said yesterday, we need to pay the taxes and our long-term care insurance. But we really want to get the biodiversity thing going.
So land is such an emotional issue. It's where you come from. It's where we all come from. And it's where we all end up in the end, you know? Everybody has a sense of place. And everybody, that's important to them. So that makes it a really emotional issue.
Our corn-and-soybeans renter said, well, it's your land. You can do what you want with it. But he wasn't really happy when we took 50 acres from his purview and gave it to somebody who's going to be raising sheep and cattle on it.
CATHY WURZER: Mmm. Mm-hmm. But he understood though.
MEG NIELSEN: He understands. And that's what people will often tell you. It's your land, and you can do what you want with it. And that is true. But it's kind of like the guy in the cabin in the boat, and he's chopping a hole in the floor. Well, it's his cabin. He can do what he wants with it. But one only hopes that he will do something that is not detrimental to everybody else.
CATHY WURZER: So talk to me about certain farming practices. You mentioned this. Of course, you're grazing. You're doing grazing right now. You also talked, I believe, about planting cover crops that can help lower land's carbon footprint, right?
But this all takes time and energy. So I'm wondering here, when it comes to negotiating and banding together, you and other landowners, to have more of a climate-minded requirements to your folks who are leasing your land, how do you tackle that? How do you explain this?
MEG NIELSEN: Well, yeah, how do you tackle it? Well, that's why this group has been so important to us, because it's a group of people who have so much expertise. Some of them have so much more information, so much more expertise, so much more experience than my husband and I do. We're coming to this from teaching and church professions. And we don't know much about farming.
You really have to be in there, communicate with each other, be not afraid to say, I don't know how to do this. Can you help me? You have to keep good communication lines going with your local soil and conservation district office. You have to be willing to take advantage of some programs that are out there. And this is a great time, actually, to do that because there is funding and government programs available.
CATHY WURZER: And the group helps you wend your way through those government programs, which can be pretty complicated.
MEG NIELSEN: Right. It can be, although we have found the people at the Freeborn County offices just really super willing to help. And I think that's pretty much the experience across the board because these are people who want to see farmers succeed.
And oftentimes, the people in Climate Land Leaders have said, well, have you tried the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Area? Have you have you called them? Have you talked to them? They might have funding available. Or have you gone into CRP? Have you looked into that?
And everybody is really willing to help. It's been really heartening to us because this is a hopeful thing, to find out that there are other people doing the same thing that you're doing and that there is support for it. If you're just off on your own, you're kind of tempted to think, I can't do anything.
And you fall into despair because this is-- the climate is on the edge. We're on the edge of something that is irreversible. But just to know that there are other people out there who want to preserve the Earth, who want to care for it, that's just so important to us. It gives us hope.
CATHY WURZER: Thank you. And I appreciate that. What do you hope your farmland looks like in 50 years from now?
MEG NIELSEN: [LAUGHS] Well, I won't be here to see it. I don't even know if I'll be here to see the end of the CRP contracts we signed this year for 15 years because my husband and I are both 75. But we hope that it will be a refuge, that it will be a place where there will be pheasants and small game rabbits and deer. And we hope that those trees that we're planting will be a home for bees and pollinators and birds, birds that we haven't seen in a long time, like meadowlarks that have just totally disappeared from the landscape.
We hope it'll be a place with some real biodiversity, where maybe some crops like elderberries will be grown, or hazelnuts, and that it'll be some place that people come and they'll think-- they'll look at it, and they'll think, wow, we thought she was crazy when she started this. But I guess maybe she wasn't. [LAUGHS]
CATHY WURZER: Do your kids plan to continue the work?
MEG NIELSEN: They do. They do. Yeah, we're lucky. We have three kids, and they're all into it up to their eyebrows. So that's helpful.
CATHY WURZER: And you mentioned the trees yesterday. And I'm trying to get a picture as to where the trees are and how many. Tell me where they are.
MEG NIELSEN: Well, yeah, we we're planting 600 trees--
CATHY WURZER: That's right.
MEG NIELSEN: --this weekend. And like I said, we're 75. And we aren't going to be able to do this on our own. We are renting a tree planter from the Soil & Water Conservation District Office. And our grazier is helping us. He's got a tractor.
And we're just having a little trouble finding some people to help us because while our kids are all behind us, one is in New York. And the other two are busy with jobs and can't come to help us. So yeah. So we got to find some help. If you want to come down and help us plant trees this weekend, we got a spot for you.
CATHY WURZER: Well, we might have to-- maybe if folks contact Minnesota Now and they want to know where you are, we can put them in touch with you. How does that sound?
MEG NIELSEN: Oh, that would be great.
CATHY WURZER: There you go. Our public service to you, Meg. [LAUGHS] I appreciate--
MEG NIELSEN: Well, thank you, and--
CATHY WURZER: --what you're doing. Go ahead.
MEG NIELSEN: Thanks. I just wanted to invite anybody who's interested in working to alleviate climate change with their land because, like you said, it's a big producer of greenhouse gases right now. They can check out Climate Land Leaders at climatelandleaders.org.
CATHY WURZER: All right.
MEG NIELSEN: Just wanted to put in a plug for that great organization that's been so helpful to us.
CATHY WURZER: Well, Meg Nielsen, I wish you will this weekend. Who knows? Maybe a couple of MPR listeners in the Freeborn County area will come on over to help you plant 600 trees. [LAUGHS]
MEG NIELSEN: Yes, that would be wonderful.
CATHY WURZER: Yes.
MEG NIELSEN: Have them call me.
CATHY WURZER: I wish you well. Thank you so much.
MEG NIELSEN: All right, thank you. Great to be on.
CATHY WURZER: Likewise. Thanks for being here. Meg Nielsen lives in Wisconsin. As I mentioned, owns farmland in Southern Minnesota-- Freeborn County, to be specific. And tomorrow, here on the program, we're going to talk to an Ojibwe farmer about bringing back bison and the challenges of farming on tribal trust land.
Say, and by the way, we heard from a listener named Jim yesterday who was listening. And he points out that folks who own family forests, as compared to family farms, have to choose between cutting those trees for income or letting them continue to become old-growth forests for generations. He says the tax level is higher and incentive programs are fewer when it comes to maintaining forests over farmland, which is a good point. So thank you, Jim. We'll have to dig into that topic at a future date.
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