Why police didn't take Heather Mayer's case seriously until now
Tracy Dettling began compiling evidence after Dakota County declined to file charges in Heather Mayer’s death. Above, she held a photo of her daughter on Jan. 2 as she stood on the frozen remains of a garden Mayer had planted for her years ago in Nerstrand, Minn.
Courtesy of Renee Jones Schneider | Star Tribune
Four years ago, 33-year-old Heather Mayer’s death was ruled a suicide. It was a story her mother never believed, and she felt police weren’t doing enough to track down other explanations.
Police reopened Mayer's case after her mother pored over records, text messages and social media posts. She also took the story to Star Tribune crime and policing reporter Andy Mannix, whose story about Mayer’s death and investigation was published recently.
MPR News host Cathy Wurzer spoke with Mannix about his investigation into this case.
Use the audio player above to listen to the full conversation.
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Audio transcript
CATHY WURZER: Before we start this next conversation, I want you to know it involves sexual violence and may be sensitive for some listeners. Here's the story. Four years ago, 33-year-old Heather Mayer was found dead. Heather was involved in BDSM, a variety of erotic practices or role playing that involves bondage, discipline, dominance, and submission. Her death was ruled a suicide.
But Heather's mom never believed that story. Police reopened Heather's case after her mother pored over records, text messages, and social media posts. She also took the story to Star Tribune policing reporter Andy Mannix. Andy's with us right now to talk about his investigation, which was just published this week.
Hey, welcome back to the program.
ANDY MANNIX: Hey, thanks, Cathy.
CATHY WURZER: So Heather's mom reached out to you in 2021. How did your understanding of what happened evolve as you learned more?
ANDY MANNIX: Yeah, I mean, a lot of the things that are in the story hadn't happened yet. When she first reached out to me, it was really about Heather and her feeling like the police had not done a very thorough job in investigating her daughter's death. She really was seeking justice and I think felt like going to a reporter who would shine some light on the case could help put this on people's radar or pressure law enforcement or whatever.
As I started looking into it and learned about Heather's involvement in BDSM, I soon learned that there were other women who had allegations against her boyfriend and that there was this-- the tension was kind of this line between what do you consent to and what do you not consent to in a world where you're putting yourself in a vulnerable place, being like a BDSM, what they call submissive. And so from there, we just kept pulling on that thread.
And as we were reporting, more allegations started coming out from not just here in Minnesota but around the country. So it turned into a story more about the BDSM world and what consent means in that world and why, I think, colored the way that police and prosecutors and judges looked at these cases and looked at these victims and the amount of credibility, I guess, they decided to give to the victims.
CATHY WURZER: Did you get that impression? Do you think that this was a matter-- because, what, of Heather's participation in BDSM, do you think it led police to kind of shrug, in a sense, and say, well, look what she's involved in?
ANDY MANNIX: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, we have, in the story and many comments that we didn't include, that you have law enforcement talking about, well, your lifestyle makes this a pretty hard case. The jury's never going to believe you. We have not just prosecutors here but all over telling the women that.
They're providing evidence. They're saying, look at this. I didn't agree to this. And look at these, just this terrible violence. So it's inflicted upon me. And you have the police and prosecutors saying, like, these are really bad, but the jurors-- a jury would never side with you.
In a very telling quote from the investigator in Heather's case telling another woman who came forward and said this person abused me and here's video evidence of it, he said, well, it's kind of like a boxer going into a ring, and you can't just sue the person later for beating you up when you agreed to fight. And I would say, and I think the victims would say and anyone who did a close look at this case, that is not what happened at all. This is not something they agreed to and then later wanted to take it back or didn't like the outcome.
CATHY WURZER: There was, reading your piece, some severe physical and mental abuse throughout the course of Heather's time with her boyfriend, and then the other women involved as well. I'm wondering, when you get in your-- when you get into stories like this and some of the things you've done in your career that kind of there's almost an imperfect victim that can sometimes surface, how is that to cover? Is that a difficult story to tell?
ANDY MANNIX: Yeah. You're totally right, and we see this a lot. You see some cases that are treated differently by the criminal justice system, treated differently by the media in terms of what kind of cases get a lot of attention and what don't. I think there's a different quality of justice that you see for different kinds of victims.
It is pretty-- it's a pretty hard thing to distill in a story, though. It's a hard thing to get at in the way that readers are going to understand. And what I hoped with this story was that people would be able to see that just by laying out the facts-- we don't use the word imperfect victim, I don't think, in the story. But we hoped that when people read this case that there would be something-- there would be a bigger-picture understanding of the criminal justice system that they would walk away with.
CATHY WURZER: There's been a lot of work, as you know, to bring more attention to cases of missing and murdered Indigenous people, African American women, whose cases haven't received the same attention as those of white women. Are there lessons from those movements that can apply in this case at all?
ANDY MANNIX: Yeah, totally. And I think that with missing and murdered Indigenous women, there is something specific happening with that population. But it definitely falls under that larger umbrella of imperfect victims. You could say the same thing about if you get-- there's a shooting at the state fair or the Mall of America. That's going to get-- there's going to be a lot of pressure on law enforcement to solve that.
If there's a shooting in North Minneapolis on West Broadway, maybe not so much. If there's an incident of violence that involves a college student, as newspaper reporters we sort of treat those victims as the opposite. We give them a lot of attention. We say, this isn't supposed to happen to someone who is going to the University of Minnesota. And I think that that's kind of a problem because it sort of implies it is supposed to happen to other people.
So I think that everything you're talking about fits under this umbrella of, again, just that quality of justice that some victims get and others don't by the criminal justice system. The story isn't just about one police officer or one judge or one prosecutor. I really think it is something that happens system-wide with our criminal justice system, with society. And like I said, we see it with the media as well.
And I don't know what the solution necessarily is. But we hoped that we could illustrate this one case in a way where people could ask themselves, is this OK? Do I accept that this is the limitation of our criminal justice system where some people, if something happens to them, that's fine and there may not be repercussions versus other people are going to get really swift, high-quality of justice?
CATHY WURZER: By the way, what are-- how is Heather's mom doing? And does she feel that justice has been served in her daughter's case?
ANDY MANNIX: Well, she doesn't feel that justice has been served. I think that she was-- when I first met with her, it was very clear to me that she had gone down every avenue that she was aware of, and everyone had been a dead end. She had been really trying to bring the things that she was finding that police didn't find to the police and the prosecutors and trying to get the BCA involved. She hired a private investigator.
So I think that, for her, seeing the story, seeing her daughter's story told, was really important to her. And she felt like we did her daughter's story justice. But I think that she is still thinking that no one is being held responsible for what happened to Heather. And I know that I've been hearing from her a lot in these past couple of days. And I know that she really hopes that this story and the issues we raised will drive investigators to take a closer look or maybe get others involved to get a fresh pair of eyes on it. So that's very apparent.
CATHY WURZER: By the way, a final question here. What kind of feedback have you gotten since the story was published?
ANDY MANNIX: It's been extremely positive. This is not the type of story, I think, that you're used to seeing in the Star Tribune or any daily newspaper dealing with these sorts of sensitive issues. So it was a little bit of an experiment for us in storytelling and the type of things that we cover, I guess.
And so it's been heartening to get a lot of response that indicates to me that people really understood why we did the story, and we're grateful for it and grateful that we shined a light on it. I've learned a lot about the BDSM community through this reporting, going into it knowing very little. And I think that they are a community that feels very misunderstood.
So I've heard from a lot of those folks who were glad that we took the time to understand their lifestyle, why it's maybe a little bit more normal than a lot of people think based on what they've seen in movies or whatever. So it's been really great to get that kind of feedback too, people telling us that we got it right and just describing the world that they live in.
CATHY WURZER: All right. Andy, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it.
ANDY MANNIX: Thank you, Cathy.
CATHY WURZER: Andy Mannix is a crime and policing reporter for the Star Tribune. By the way, I have to say if you are feeling unsafe at home or with a partner, you can find help through the Minnesota Day One Crisis Hotline. I'm going to give that number. That's 1-866-223-1111.
But Heather's mom never believed that story. Police reopened Heather's case after her mother pored over records, text messages, and social media posts. She also took the story to Star Tribune policing reporter Andy Mannix. Andy's with us right now to talk about his investigation, which was just published this week.
Hey, welcome back to the program.
ANDY MANNIX: Hey, thanks, Cathy.
CATHY WURZER: So Heather's mom reached out to you in 2021. How did your understanding of what happened evolve as you learned more?
ANDY MANNIX: Yeah, I mean, a lot of the things that are in the story hadn't happened yet. When she first reached out to me, it was really about Heather and her feeling like the police had not done a very thorough job in investigating her daughter's death. She really was seeking justice and I think felt like going to a reporter who would shine some light on the case could help put this on people's radar or pressure law enforcement or whatever.
As I started looking into it and learned about Heather's involvement in BDSM, I soon learned that there were other women who had allegations against her boyfriend and that there was this-- the tension was kind of this line between what do you consent to and what do you not consent to in a world where you're putting yourself in a vulnerable place, being like a BDSM, what they call submissive. And so from there, we just kept pulling on that thread.
And as we were reporting, more allegations started coming out from not just here in Minnesota but around the country. So it turned into a story more about the BDSM world and what consent means in that world and why, I think, colored the way that police and prosecutors and judges looked at these cases and looked at these victims and the amount of credibility, I guess, they decided to give to the victims.
CATHY WURZER: Did you get that impression? Do you think that this was a matter-- because, what, of Heather's participation in BDSM, do you think it led police to kind of shrug, in a sense, and say, well, look what she's involved in?
ANDY MANNIX: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, we have, in the story and many comments that we didn't include, that you have law enforcement talking about, well, your lifestyle makes this a pretty hard case. The jury's never going to believe you. We have not just prosecutors here but all over telling the women that.
They're providing evidence. They're saying, look at this. I didn't agree to this. And look at these, just this terrible violence. So it's inflicted upon me. And you have the police and prosecutors saying, like, these are really bad, but the jurors-- a jury would never side with you.
In a very telling quote from the investigator in Heather's case telling another woman who came forward and said this person abused me and here's video evidence of it, he said, well, it's kind of like a boxer going into a ring, and you can't just sue the person later for beating you up when you agreed to fight. And I would say, and I think the victims would say and anyone who did a close look at this case, that is not what happened at all. This is not something they agreed to and then later wanted to take it back or didn't like the outcome.
CATHY WURZER: There was, reading your piece, some severe physical and mental abuse throughout the course of Heather's time with her boyfriend, and then the other women involved as well. I'm wondering, when you get in your-- when you get into stories like this and some of the things you've done in your career that kind of there's almost an imperfect victim that can sometimes surface, how is that to cover? Is that a difficult story to tell?
ANDY MANNIX: Yeah. You're totally right, and we see this a lot. You see some cases that are treated differently by the criminal justice system, treated differently by the media in terms of what kind of cases get a lot of attention and what don't. I think there's a different quality of justice that you see for different kinds of victims.
It is pretty-- it's a pretty hard thing to distill in a story, though. It's a hard thing to get at in the way that readers are going to understand. And what I hoped with this story was that people would be able to see that just by laying out the facts-- we don't use the word imperfect victim, I don't think, in the story. But we hoped that when people read this case that there would be something-- there would be a bigger-picture understanding of the criminal justice system that they would walk away with.
CATHY WURZER: There's been a lot of work, as you know, to bring more attention to cases of missing and murdered Indigenous people, African American women, whose cases haven't received the same attention as those of white women. Are there lessons from those movements that can apply in this case at all?
ANDY MANNIX: Yeah, totally. And I think that with missing and murdered Indigenous women, there is something specific happening with that population. But it definitely falls under that larger umbrella of imperfect victims. You could say the same thing about if you get-- there's a shooting at the state fair or the Mall of America. That's going to get-- there's going to be a lot of pressure on law enforcement to solve that.
If there's a shooting in North Minneapolis on West Broadway, maybe not so much. If there's an incident of violence that involves a college student, as newspaper reporters we sort of treat those victims as the opposite. We give them a lot of attention. We say, this isn't supposed to happen to someone who is going to the University of Minnesota. And I think that that's kind of a problem because it sort of implies it is supposed to happen to other people.
So I think that everything you're talking about fits under this umbrella of, again, just that quality of justice that some victims get and others don't by the criminal justice system. The story isn't just about one police officer or one judge or one prosecutor. I really think it is something that happens system-wide with our criminal justice system, with society. And like I said, we see it with the media as well.
And I don't know what the solution necessarily is. But we hoped that we could illustrate this one case in a way where people could ask themselves, is this OK? Do I accept that this is the limitation of our criminal justice system where some people, if something happens to them, that's fine and there may not be repercussions versus other people are going to get really swift, high-quality of justice?
CATHY WURZER: By the way, what are-- how is Heather's mom doing? And does she feel that justice has been served in her daughter's case?
ANDY MANNIX: Well, she doesn't feel that justice has been served. I think that she was-- when I first met with her, it was very clear to me that she had gone down every avenue that she was aware of, and everyone had been a dead end. She had been really trying to bring the things that she was finding that police didn't find to the police and the prosecutors and trying to get the BCA involved. She hired a private investigator.
So I think that, for her, seeing the story, seeing her daughter's story told, was really important to her. And she felt like we did her daughter's story justice. But I think that she is still thinking that no one is being held responsible for what happened to Heather. And I know that I've been hearing from her a lot in these past couple of days. And I know that she really hopes that this story and the issues we raised will drive investigators to take a closer look or maybe get others involved to get a fresh pair of eyes on it. So that's very apparent.
CATHY WURZER: By the way, a final question here. What kind of feedback have you gotten since the story was published?
ANDY MANNIX: It's been extremely positive. This is not the type of story, I think, that you're used to seeing in the Star Tribune or any daily newspaper dealing with these sorts of sensitive issues. So it was a little bit of an experiment for us in storytelling and the type of things that we cover, I guess.
And so it's been heartening to get a lot of response that indicates to me that people really understood why we did the story, and we're grateful for it and grateful that we shined a light on it. I've learned a lot about the BDSM community through this reporting, going into it knowing very little. And I think that they are a community that feels very misunderstood.
So I've heard from a lot of those folks who were glad that we took the time to understand their lifestyle, why it's maybe a little bit more normal than a lot of people think based on what they've seen in movies or whatever. So it's been really great to get that kind of feedback too, people telling us that we got it right and just describing the world that they live in.
CATHY WURZER: All right. Andy, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it.
ANDY MANNIX: Thank you, Cathy.
CATHY WURZER: Andy Mannix is a crime and policing reporter for the Star Tribune. By the way, I have to say if you are feeling unsafe at home or with a partner, you can find help through the Minnesota Day One Crisis Hotline. I'm going to give that number. That's 1-866-223-1111.
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