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Catholics and Christians worldwide are mourning the death of Pope Francis, who died Monday morning at the age of 88 after 12 years in the papacy. But why is the passing of the leader of the worldwide Catholic Church important, even to people who don’t share his faith or aren’t religious? 

Massimo Faggioli, a professor of theology and religious studies and a leading voice on the inner workings of the Catholic Church, joined MPR News host Cathy Wurzer on Morning Edition with answers and a look at Francis’ legacy. 

The following has been lightly edited for clarity and length. Listen to the full conversation by clicking the player button above.

Why is the pope’s death such a big deal? 

It's a big story because, first, the Catholic Church is the largest nongovernmental organization in the world that takes care of the poor, and it has a global impact. And the second thing is that Pope Francis really was the first pope of the third millennium. 

He really turned Catholicism towards the global world. Now, being a Catholic doesn't mean you have to be culturally European or even North American, and that is a great act of interpretation of the situation of our world now. 

The Catholic Church is a very conservative institution. How did Francis change it? 

He's very conservative, but he's also very progressive in other ways. So Pope Francis first changed it by seeing himself not as a man of the institution, but as a man of the people. I remember when I was in Minnesota, he gave an interview and said, “If someone who is gay seeks God, who am I to judge?” 

That was one of the moments when some part of the Catholic Church started turning against him, so he was a disruptor in some ways, because he understood that the church is not a museum, but it is a garden to be cultivated in ways that are life-giving, not just serving the past. 

He fell short on addressing the issue of women in the church, but he did something: he lifted the ban on talking about this thing. But he had opportunities to make changes, and in those moments, especially in 2019 and 2020, he chose not to. I think that’s the major thing that could have been done and wasn't done, and it's in the hands of the successor, whoever they are. 

Francis called recent U.S. deportations a ‘major crisis.’ What will you watch for between his successor and the Trump administration? 

Well, this is the age of Trump, and the Catholic Church's relations with the U.S. administration are at their lowest point in a century. It's a very serious situation. I think this will play a role in the Conclave, and it might steer the conversation into a less inward-looking direction. 

This international situation is certainly different from the previous conflict, 2013, when we didn't have all these kinds of disruptions that we have seen in these last 12 years — Brexit and Trump — and so that is a very particular kind of situation in which the Conclave will have to discuss. 

You wrote that Catholics worldwide should be concerned about what’s happening in the U.S. church. Why? 

Because what happens in the Catholic Church in the United States 

 — and that's true also for culture and for religion. And so a disruption of Catholicism in this country means that there are some voices, some influences, some money, some actions that will serve as a model for other churches, for the church leaders, for political leaders. And so that's why the United States is, in a certain way, a unique, exceptional church. And what happens here has global effects that are more direct than for other churches. 

What scramble does Francis’ death begin for cardinals who may wish to be elevated to Pope? 

Well, it is a scramble, yes, but we have been in this preparation of the Conclave for two months, and so this is not exactly a shock as it was when Pope Benedict resigned in 2013. No one expected that. Informal discussions started months ago. Positioning by some cardinals has happened already quietly, and so we will see what happens during the next couple of weeks. But the 

 is much larger now but made up of fewer global leaders. 

Cathy Wurzer

Host

Gracie  Stockton

Author

Massimo Faggioli, a professor of theology and religious studies and a leading voice on the inner workings of the Catholic Church, joined MPR News host Cathy Wurzer on Morning Edition with a look at the pope’s legacy. 

Theologian: Why Pope Francis’ death, legacy matter even if you’re not Catholic

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