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The death toll among Israelis and Palestinians continues to climb as civilians bear the brunt of what has become a devastating war, and Minnesotans with ties for the region.

Taher Herzallah is a graduate student at the University of Minnesota and director of outreach and community organizing for American Muslims for Palestine. He has family in the Rimal neighborhood of Gaza, which was bombarded this week.

'Our family's homes were bombarded:' Minnesotan worries for loved ones in Gaza

Eleanor Fink graduated from Southwest High School in June before joining a gap year program in Tel Aviv. We hear from her and her father, who is watching the situation from Minnesota.  

'I walk on this street every day:' Minneapolis teenager witnesses recent attacks in Israel

INTERVIEWER: We're waiting for President Biden and Vice President Harris to join the podium here at the White House press room to make comment on what's happening in Israel and Gaza. They're still not ready to go yet. So what we are going to do here is to talk a little bit more about the Minnesota reaction to what's going on overseas. Specifically, we're going to talk about Minneapolis teenager Eleanor Fink. Now Eleanor witnessed some of the attacks firsthand. Here's who she is. 

She graduated from Minneapolis Southwest High School back in June. She's on a gap-year program in Tel Aviv. Her program was on a road trip when they started hearing rocket fire. Let's hear from her. 

ELEANOR FINK: I thought that there was a pretty good chance that there might be some conflict while I was in Israel. But I didn't think that much into it. But when we got off the bus, after coming back from a nice weekend, we stopped and my friend yelled, get off-- get out of the bus. Get on the ground. And I laid face down on the ground with my hands over my head protecting them from rockets as-- and you could hear them overhead, which was really scary. 

And I don't know. I'd never-- I walk on the street every day during the day, like the same street. And it was just, it was-- I didn't think that that would ever happen to me. And the fact that it happened just over a month into me living here was really scary. But we're safer now, which I'm glad. 

INTERVIEWER: So back home in Minnesota, Eleanor's dad, Howard, is following the situation closely, as you might imagine. I talked with him earlier this morning and asked what he'd heard from his daughter. 

HOWARD FINK: I mean, they've been moved out of Tel Aviv and to someplace farther away from Gaza. And so she's safe now. I mean, she's-- her emotions have been kind of all over with this. But I think she seemed pretty calm this morning. 

INTERVIEWER: Well, her emotions are all over I'm sure. So probably are yours as a dad. 

HOWARD FINK: Yeah. Yeah. I had talked to her that my son, her brother, and I had been selected to go and hold the flag for the national anthem for the Twins game. And then it's kind of light conversation. And two hours later, she is texting me saying they're coming close. They're here, daddy. And she was taking cover from rockets flying overhead. And she had been-- they were outside and hadn't been able to get to a bomb shelter yet. So that was-- that was pretty sort of helpless feeling and scary. 

INTERVIEWER: Wow. I can't even imagine what you were thinking. 

HOWARD FINK: Yeah. I mean, we had her-- she shared her location. So we're watching and she sent a screen capture of this-- I don't know if all the kids have this app now that tells them where rockets are coming. And the screen showed the neighborhood she was in. So that's-- it's like, we check the weather, and they check where the rockets are coming. It's kind of, I don't know, dystopian. 

INTERVIEWER: This is such a place in the world that is fraught with peril and tension. Why did she want to spend a gap year in Israel? 

HOWARD FINK: Well, we had gone to Israel when she was 13 and Eli was, I guess he'd just turned 12. And they really had a great time. It was just for 10, 11 days, we'd gone to Israel and Jordan. And I think she wasn't quite in a place where to start college. And this gave her the opportunity. She's doing an architecture internship and one with a theater, and taking classes, and getting to travel, and having to live in an apartment, do her own shopping, her own cooking, transportation, laundry. 

We thought that from a independence point of view, and getting to-- she's not going to be a year behind in life, and she'd get more out of college when she is ready for it. And she was going with a friend. She went to a Jewish middle school. So there's the religious connection. I think she hadn't been away from home for this length of time before. So that-- that's been a little bit of an adjustment. But I think she's made some friends. It was going pretty well up until a few days ago. 

INTERVIEWER: Wow. What have you heard from her organizers, the program organizers in Israel? 

HOWARD FINK: We were getting security updates a few times the first day. And then we got-- the last one was Sunday. There was a webinar for the parents. We didn't hear anything yesterday. Some of the staff have been called up into the reserves. So they've consolidated some of the kids. And right now, they're not sure if-- they're basically reassessing things minute by-- or hour by hour anyway to decide whether they can continue to provide programming. They need to keep the kids safe. 

We are, and I think a lot of the other parents, are making contingency plans in case the need to move Eleanor out of Israel temporarily. She-- I mean, she doesn't want to end the program. 

INTERVIEWER: By the way, what's the name of the program? I'm unclear. 

HOWARD FINK: It's Young Judaea year course. 

INTERVIEWER: OK. Wow, that's a lot that they're trying to do to keep the kids safe and then continue on with the programs. Just because you are a good parent, have you had the opportunity, or have you thought about maybe contacting Senator Klobuchar, or Senator Smith, just make sure that there would be an avenue to take if you needed to get Eleanor out? 

HOWARD FINK: Not specifically. I mean, we signed up for-- we registered her for the state department. They know that she's there. They know what address she was at. But they have her contact information. They have our contact information so that she'll get alerts. 

INTERVIEWER: Boy. I wonder how this will affect her. I mean, you grow up pretty fast when you're-- when something like this is happening. 

HOWARD FINK: Yeah. I mean, I thought the COVID, and then they had the long teachers strike in Minneapolis, and the kids were all having to grow up fast and be resilient in ways different than we had to be, and then this. Yes. I don't know. But I mean, it certainly crossed my mind wondering what effect this will have. But she seems to be calm now. I mean, they have the kids volunteering. And they were sorting donations today to soldiers, and families, and I don't know what they have planned. They're trying to keep them busy. 

INTERVIEWER: So you will keep in contact with her. She is still there. Any other safety plan that you're aware of for your daughter and the other kids? 

HOWARD FINK: If there is a risk for where they are, the-- I guess, if the program is saying they can't keep them safe, then we're going to fly her out of Israel, at least temporarily, to another country. And the director of the program said if they feel that they can't provide meaningful programming, can't keep them safe, they will at least temporarily stop the program and everybody will go home. 

I'm not sure what else they can do. I mean, where they are, there are bomb shelters, and it's probably-- it's not in a huge population center where I would think it would be a-- as much of a target for Hamas. So-- 

INTERVIEWER: Wow. What a situation. Howard Fink, thank you for taking the time to talk with us. 

HOWARD FINK: Oh yeah. Thank you for-- you're welcome. And thank you for covering this story. 

INTERVIEWER: Howard Fink is from Minneapolis. His daughter Eleanor is taking a gap year in Tel Aviv. What we're doing right now is we're in a bit of a holding pattern as we wait for President Biden to take the podium at the White House. He'll have remarks about what's happening in Israel and Gaza. He and Vice President Harris talked about an hour ago to Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu. Israel's embassy in Washington just said the death toll from the weekend Hamas attacks has surpassed 1,000. 

The victims are overwhelmingly civilians gunned down in homes, on streets, or at an outdoor dance party. Scores of Israelis and some foreigners were captured and taken to Gaza as hostages. We'll hear more from the president on that. 

Fred Schlomka and his family split their time in St. Paul, Israel and Scotland. And when he is in Israel, Schlomka leads tours of Jerusalem and the West Bank through his tour company, Green Olive Tours. Born and raised in Scotland by Palestinian parents, Schlomka said his tours are designed to bridge divides and build understanding.

‘Unwavering in my hope for the future’: St. Paul man leads tours of West Bank to bridge divides

The attack on Israel Saturday by Hamas militants has galvanized Jewish communities around the world — and in Minnesota. On Tuesday night, a solidarity gathering in St. Louis Park drew thousands of people.

'People do not want bombings': Minnesota Jewish community gathers after attack on Israel

Palestinian flags waved and hundreds of people marched down Washington Avenue in Minneapolis on Monday night in response to a never-ending cycle of violence.

Hundreds gather in Minneapolis Monday night in support of Palestine amid ongoing war

Minnesota is home to communities on both sides of the conflict, Israelis and Palestinians. And we wanted to talk to both, about their personal experience watching this all unfold from thousands of miles away.

Minnesota Israeli and Palestinian reflect on violence in Israel and Gaza

[MUSIC PLAYING] CATHY WURZER: An all-out war is raging in Israel and Gaza after Hamas launched a large-scale surprise attack over the weekend catching the Israeli army off guard. The death toll has passed 1,500 on both sides, that also includes 9 US citizens. There may be more. Palestinian militants claim they're holding more than 100 Israelis in Gaza, that's an enclave of about 2.3 million Palestinians bordering Israel and Egypt. 

Minnesota is home to communities on both sides of the conflict-- Israelis and Palestinians. We wanted to talk to both about their personal experience watching this all unfold from thousands of miles away. Joining us right now is Tal Dror Rouache. She is the Israel program director with the St. Paul Jewish Federation. Tal, welcome. 

TAL DROR ROUACHE: Thank you. Thank you. 

CATHY WURZER: You work for the federation, what do you do? 

TAL DROR ROUACHE: So right now my husband and I are visiting his family. So I'm volunteering for the federation because I was here in 2017 to 2019 as a young emissary for the Jewish Agency for Israel. 

CATHY WURZER: Oh, what was your first reaction when you heard about the violence over the weekend? 

TAL DROR ROUACHE: It's a nightmare. We've never had anything like that going on in Israel. I couldn't believe that I see videos of Hamas, which are humans, kidnapping, raping, and murdering women and kids, and they're all innocent. And they even kidnap more than 130 people into Gaza-- women, seniors-- who doesn't deserve that. 

CATHY WURZER: Have you had a chance to-- have you had a chance to talk to your family? 

TAL DROR ROUACHE: Yes, I'm in touch with my family, thank God they are safe. But I have a lot of friends that have relatives who are missing and they don't know what to do because these people were kidnapped into Gaza. 

CATHY WURZER: What do you feel that people don't understand about this conflict, and now war? 

TAL DROR ROUACHE: I think that this is a wake-up call for anyone who supports the Palestinian narrative. In the end of the day, we are dealing with a terror organization. This terror organization has people who make choices of raping and kidnapping. More than 800 kids and women were murdered by them. 

CATHY WURZER: I have to ask Tal, what do you mean by Palestinian narrative? 

TAL DROR ROUACHE: I mean by what's happening in Gaza. Gaza is controlled by a terror organization, and they want just to destroy Israel and kill Israelis, both Jews and Arabs. 

CATHY WURZER: I'm wondering, I understand that you were in the Israeli army-- of course, being in the Israeli army is required of all citizens, and you were in the IDF during the 2014 Gaza war. What was that experience like, and can you compare and contrast that to what is currently occurring? 

TAL DROR ROUACHE: Yes. So I was an education guide in my military services, like every Israeli has to go and serve in the military. And in 2014 during the Protective Edge Operation, I was a soldier. I had a few friends that were murdered in Gaza. And this is different. This is different because now Hamas is not just trying to kill soldiers, they are killing innocent women and kids, pregnant women, seniors, and they are taking them all into Gaza. And they don't even want to negotiate, they just kill them. 

CATHY WURZER: How do you see this ending? 

TAL DROR ROUACHE: I only see this ending if we have a side that we can talk to because right now, we don't have a side that we can talk to. And this war has to end and we need to bring back our innocent people who are being held in Gaza. This is pure evil, and this evil must be stopped. 

CATHY WURZER: Tal, are you able to go back? Do you want to go back? 

Tal Dror Rouache: Of course, I want to go back. This is my homeland. This is the only Jewish state in the world, and this is the only state that we can feel welcome. After so many events throughout the years, Holocaust, this is the only place that accept Jews, but this is a dangerous situation. 

CATHY WURZER: It is a dangerous situation. Tal, I appreciate your time. Thank you so very much. 

TAL DROR ROUACHE: Thank you for having me. 

CATHY WURZER: Tal Dror Rouache is the Israel program director with the St. Paul Jewish Federation. Well, right now we're going to turn to Ziad Amra. Ziad is a Palestinian American living in Minnesota. Ziad, thanks for your time. 

ZIAD AMRA: Hi, Cathy. 

CATHY WURZER: I know you were born here. Your mom and dad were born in Palestine. You've been back many times I understand, including this past summer. What was that like? 

ZIAD AMRA: Well, it's always interesting dichotomy because as Americans, we can go there and visit as tourists. And yet when we get there, of course, we're Palestinians, given our name and where we're staying and all of that and we're treated that way by the Israeli authorities. I would say that during this particular trip, we went to see this past summer family and relatives. And there was Israeli military incursions into Jenin and Nablus. And when we were there, over 20 Palestinians were killed, including children. 

And also, there's been over time, and including through the summer and even as recently as this week, a lot of settler violence. So we didn't travel to see some of the sites in the Northern West Bank, especially around Nablus, because settlers had-- been covered in the news to a certain degree set entire towns and villages on fire. So it was a subdued trip and people are very apprehensive about their safety, about their livelihoods, and really what's going to happen next. So it's a little depressing, but it's sort of that way all the time. 

CATHY WURZER: What was your reaction when you first saw the news-- heard the news and saw the video? 

ZIAD AMRA: Of this latest issue? 

CATHY WURZER: This latest conflict. Yeah. 

ZIAD AMRA: Yeah. Well, to be honest with you, it was shocking, sort of its breadth and scope, and also not surprising because the way-- you and I are talking about the news is-- the news cycle is filled with this. And the reason is because there have been an enormous amount of casualties on the Israeli side, but what's not mentioned in any of this is the context, the context of 75 years of Palestinian dispossession from their lands. Or if you want to start from 1967, 56 years of military occupation, the longest one on the face of the Earth. 

And occupation, let's make no mistake about it, is violence day in and day out. People die, children die. And in this year alone, 250 Palestinians have been shot and killed, including 50 children. While I was there that happened. And it doesn't make the news because it's death by 1,000 cuts or the Palestinian lives don't matter to the West or the Western press. It's not covered. 

And we should talk about Gaza too. It's been under a siege, where nothing goes in and out for 16 years. And 70% of that population are refugees from 1948. So with massive unemployment, nobody being able to get medicine or food or seek medical care or leave the territories without Israeli permission, on top of that, an Israeli government that is the most extreme and fascist that that country has ever seen and has publicly stated that the Palestinians have a choice. 

They can die-- this is before this Gaza operation-- they can die, they can leave, or they can accept the apartheid rule under which they live. And then under which Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have all said that the Palestinians exist under, and that's the context that this is happening under. 

CATHY WURZER: How do you see this ending? 

ZIAD AMRA: The only way-- I mean, you know, what's so sad is that right now what's going to happen, it seems to me, and it's already begun is a massive bombardment of Gaza, which isn't new to them because Israel periodically does that. And thousands of Palestinians will also be killed and maybe and more Israelis. And then at some point, it will stop. And then it will be not in the news anymore until it is. 

And the only way to stop this is to give the Palestinians their rights. Over 30 years ago, the Palestinians and the Israelis-- Palestinians through the PLO and the Palestinian National Authority recognized Israel, agreed to negotiate through non-violence for a two-state solution. And 30 years later, they've got nothing to show for it, except for more settlements, more ethnic cleansing. 

And by the way, on this Indigenous Peoples' Day here in America and here in Minnesota, I mean, it's very interesting because we're talking about Indigenous peoples rights there in Palestine, and their right to be, live, and be free. And so the only way that this is going to end, I mean, permanently is for there to be a real two-state solution, but Israel has refused since 2014 to even talk to the Palestinians. And now they have a government that has explicitly said they won't. 

So that's the only way. America has to-- America is Israel's largest benefactor. Europe, others, they need to apply international law equitably and equally. That's what needs to happen. But it hasn't. 

CATHY WURZER: Ziad, I'd be remiss if I didn't end this interview by asking about your family. Are they safe? 

ZIAD AMRA: My family, my relatives are in the West Bank. They are at present safe, but there are daily incursions by the Israeli forces, even before this there. And so everybody is always apprehensive and cautious and afraid to be honest with you, because that's the real sickness of this whole situation that there's an uncertainty to one's life day in and day out. But thanks for asking. 

CATHY WURZER: Ziad, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much. 

ZIAD AMRA: Thank you. 

CATHY WURZER: Ziad Amra, he is a banker and a Palestinian American living in Minnesota. 

Nicole Neri and Tim Evans for MPR News

Feven Gerezgiher | MPR News

A man with glasses poses for a headshot. 

Courtesy of Taher Herzallah

A high school graduate poses with her brother and parents

Courtesy of Howard Fink

Courtesy of Fred Schlomka

Tim Evans for MPR News

A row of demonstrators, head bowed, kneeling on both knees.

Nicole Neri for MPR News

People looking at the demonstrators waving flags in the foreground.

A teenager waves a giant flag, a woman holds a sign.

Minnesotans with ties to Israel, Gaza react to war

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