Why is Minnesota failing to draw BIPOC teachers from out-state?
Prodeo Academy teacher Markus Flynn leads a fifth-grade science class, who's distance learning on Dec. 15, 2020.
Christine T. Nguyen | MPR News file
It looks like leaders at the state department of education need to go back to the drawing board with a plan to attract BIPOC teachers to public schools.
The "Come Teach in Minnesota" plan attracted a total of six eligible teachers to the state over the past year. That's according to a legislative report out this month evaluating the state's incentive program offering bonuses to BIPOC teachers who move into Minnesota districts from out-state.
To understand more about what might draw BIPOC teachers to Minnesota, host Cathy Wurzer talks with Markus Flynn. He is a former teacher and is now the Executive Director of Black Men Teach. The organization’s mission is to recruit, prepare, place and retain Black male teachers in elementary schools.
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Audio transcript
CATHY WURZER: Looks like leaders at the State Department of Education need to go back to the drawing board with a plan to attract BIPOC teachers to public schools. The Come Teach in Minnesota program attracted a total of six eligible teachers to the state over the past year. That's according to a legislative report out this month, evaluating the state's incentive program offering bonuses to BIPOC teachers who move to Minnesota districts from outstate.
Markus Flynn knows a lot about BIPOC teachers in Minnesota public schools. He's a former teacher. He's now the executive director of Black Men Teach. The organization's mission is to recruit, prepare, place, and retain Black male teachers in elementary schools. Markus Flynn, welcome to the program.
MARKUS FLYNN: Hi. Thanks for having me.
CATHY WURZER: Thanks for being here. Well, evidently, there was enough money to hire 41 teachers. Only six were hired. What does that say to you?
MARKUS FLYNN: Yeah. So it says a few things. I think, one, first, I'm a fan of the Initiative Act. When I first saw it come out, I appreciated the effort to try to get more teachers of color in and to do it in a new, innovative way. And so what I think when you have money available for 41 and you bring in six, what it says is like a lot of pilot initiatives. You were fairly unsuccessful. So it's time to go back, look at what we learned, what can we do differently, and then try it again. And it sounds like there's buy-in to try to do this effort again. So again, I'm happy that they introduced it, and they're going to continue with it.
CATHY WURZER: Does there need to be more what, compelling incentives?
MARKUS FLYNN: So if you really want to get teachers of color here, you have to have compelling incentives in place. And so I think even with our organization, one of the things we have not stepped into yet is bringing people in. When I was growing up, my mom used to always say, before I could invite someone over, I had to clean up the house first.
And I think in this situation, cleaning up the house would be making sure that when teachers of color come here, the school environments that they're walking into are places where they'll be supported, appreciated, seen, affirmed, and have supports in place to make sure that they are successful educators. And I can't say right now, Minnesota has that.
And so when I think about this program, if they were to try to improve it for this next round, I think there are a couple of things that they could do in order to increase the success. If the funding is not significant-- Oh, go ahead.
CATHY WURZER: No. I was going to ask. Please, let me know what you're thinking about.
MARKUS FLYNN: I think there's a few ways they can do it. One, if the funding is not significantly larger, maybe concentrate the support to districts where there's a higher proportion of students of color. And so that will allow you to bring in more teachers instead of just the largest district at best could have brought in five. Some districts could only bring in two, and most districts could bring in three or less.
And so if we concentrate, they will allow you to bring in multiple people. And so now, we're not just bringing in one or two teachers within a district. We're trying to concentrate the effort where we're bringing in maybe upwards of 15 per district, and we're trying to concentrate them in school, so that they have that support together. Or they're in close proximity, so that they have somewhat of an ecosystem where they can be successful just by having the camaraderie in other people who are in a similar position.
I think even the way that they fund can be done differently. The teachers who they were able to bring over didn't have access to the funding because they didn't qualify for their tier three license. Well, if they take it and make sure that that $2,500 is guaranteed for tier 2 teachers, I think that's one way it becomes more compelling.
And even if they think about how do we concentrate this and be more specific, maybe one of the things that they can do in addition to that is increase the amount of money that they're willing to give, so it becomes more of a compelling incentive to bring people here.
$2,500 is probably less than the average cost that it takes to move out of state. Corporations, typically, when they're bringing people out of state, they have upwards of $10,000, if not more, to relocate people. And so if you really want people to come, give them a reason to come. And then make sure that everything is taken care of. So that when they come, again, the house is clean. The schools are in a position where they're able to bring people in and welcome them.
And I was looking on the website, and I didn't see this. If teachers come, I'm curious if they have contractual protections in place to make sure that they're not prematurely removed because of the lack of seniority.
CATHY WURZER: And we're not sure if that's true or not at this point.
MARKUS FLYNN: I did not see it on the website, so I'm assuming it is not there.
CATHY WURZER: Which would be a red flag.
MARKUS FLYNN: It will be. So in Minneapolis Public Schools, and I call out them specifically. They're doing some really good work because they're trying to introduce language in their contract to make sure that underrepresented teachers have the opportunity to be protected from premature layoffs due to seniority.
But what they've done, their data shows that 20% or 18% of their workforce are teachers of color. But if you look at the 2021 school year, 23% of all of the teachers who were excessed or being removed from the position prematurely were teachers of color. And so what we see in a state where 95.7% of teachers are non teachers of color, those who are being removed from the classroom the earliest are typically teachers of color or disproportionately teachers of color.
CATHY WURZER: We've got just, I'm so sorry to say, about a minute and a half left. This program draws teachers from outside the state, but I'm wondering about trying to get teachers from Minnesota to stay in Minnesota, like a grow your own program? Is there the effort to make that happen?
MARKUS FLYNN: Oh. Yeah. I think the grow your own program is where the effort is concentrated right now. And I haven't seen a report to discuss the success of it, but I do think it's an effective way to support teachers. The problems in Minnesota are relatively complex. And having people who are from here and committed to stay here I think is a more attainable way to start to attenuate the disparities that we see.
It's hard to bring in transplants to the community and expect them to bear the weather conditions, some of the cultural problems, and all of those things, and persist. It's probably easier to invest in the people who are already here.
CATHY WURZER: Markus, I wish I had more time with you. You're a really interesting individual. Thank you for the conversation today.
MARKUS FLYNN: Well, thank you.
CATHY WURZER: We've been talking to Markus Flynn. He's the executive director of Black Men Teach. That's a local organization with a mission to recruit, prepare, place, and retain Black male teachers in elementary schools. He is a former teacher himself.
Markus Flynn knows a lot about BIPOC teachers in Minnesota public schools. He's a former teacher. He's now the executive director of Black Men Teach. The organization's mission is to recruit, prepare, place, and retain Black male teachers in elementary schools. Markus Flynn, welcome to the program.
MARKUS FLYNN: Hi. Thanks for having me.
CATHY WURZER: Thanks for being here. Well, evidently, there was enough money to hire 41 teachers. Only six were hired. What does that say to you?
MARKUS FLYNN: Yeah. So it says a few things. I think, one, first, I'm a fan of the Initiative Act. When I first saw it come out, I appreciated the effort to try to get more teachers of color in and to do it in a new, innovative way. And so what I think when you have money available for 41 and you bring in six, what it says is like a lot of pilot initiatives. You were fairly unsuccessful. So it's time to go back, look at what we learned, what can we do differently, and then try it again. And it sounds like there's buy-in to try to do this effort again. So again, I'm happy that they introduced it, and they're going to continue with it.
CATHY WURZER: Does there need to be more what, compelling incentives?
MARKUS FLYNN: So if you really want to get teachers of color here, you have to have compelling incentives in place. And so I think even with our organization, one of the things we have not stepped into yet is bringing people in. When I was growing up, my mom used to always say, before I could invite someone over, I had to clean up the house first.
And I think in this situation, cleaning up the house would be making sure that when teachers of color come here, the school environments that they're walking into are places where they'll be supported, appreciated, seen, affirmed, and have supports in place to make sure that they are successful educators. And I can't say right now, Minnesota has that.
And so when I think about this program, if they were to try to improve it for this next round, I think there are a couple of things that they could do in order to increase the success. If the funding is not significant-- Oh, go ahead.
CATHY WURZER: No. I was going to ask. Please, let me know what you're thinking about.
MARKUS FLYNN: I think there's a few ways they can do it. One, if the funding is not significantly larger, maybe concentrate the support to districts where there's a higher proportion of students of color. And so that will allow you to bring in more teachers instead of just the largest district at best could have brought in five. Some districts could only bring in two, and most districts could bring in three or less.
And so if we concentrate, they will allow you to bring in multiple people. And so now, we're not just bringing in one or two teachers within a district. We're trying to concentrate the effort where we're bringing in maybe upwards of 15 per district, and we're trying to concentrate them in school, so that they have that support together. Or they're in close proximity, so that they have somewhat of an ecosystem where they can be successful just by having the camaraderie in other people who are in a similar position.
I think even the way that they fund can be done differently. The teachers who they were able to bring over didn't have access to the funding because they didn't qualify for their tier three license. Well, if they take it and make sure that that $2,500 is guaranteed for tier 2 teachers, I think that's one way it becomes more compelling.
And even if they think about how do we concentrate this and be more specific, maybe one of the things that they can do in addition to that is increase the amount of money that they're willing to give, so it becomes more of a compelling incentive to bring people here.
$2,500 is probably less than the average cost that it takes to move out of state. Corporations, typically, when they're bringing people out of state, they have upwards of $10,000, if not more, to relocate people. And so if you really want people to come, give them a reason to come. And then make sure that everything is taken care of. So that when they come, again, the house is clean. The schools are in a position where they're able to bring people in and welcome them.
And I was looking on the website, and I didn't see this. If teachers come, I'm curious if they have contractual protections in place to make sure that they're not prematurely removed because of the lack of seniority.
CATHY WURZER: And we're not sure if that's true or not at this point.
MARKUS FLYNN: I did not see it on the website, so I'm assuming it is not there.
CATHY WURZER: Which would be a red flag.
MARKUS FLYNN: It will be. So in Minneapolis Public Schools, and I call out them specifically. They're doing some really good work because they're trying to introduce language in their contract to make sure that underrepresented teachers have the opportunity to be protected from premature layoffs due to seniority.
But what they've done, their data shows that 20% or 18% of their workforce are teachers of color. But if you look at the 2021 school year, 23% of all of the teachers who were excessed or being removed from the position prematurely were teachers of color. And so what we see in a state where 95.7% of teachers are non teachers of color, those who are being removed from the classroom the earliest are typically teachers of color or disproportionately teachers of color.
CATHY WURZER: We've got just, I'm so sorry to say, about a minute and a half left. This program draws teachers from outside the state, but I'm wondering about trying to get teachers from Minnesota to stay in Minnesota, like a grow your own program? Is there the effort to make that happen?
MARKUS FLYNN: Oh. Yeah. I think the grow your own program is where the effort is concentrated right now. And I haven't seen a report to discuss the success of it, but I do think it's an effective way to support teachers. The problems in Minnesota are relatively complex. And having people who are from here and committed to stay here I think is a more attainable way to start to attenuate the disparities that we see.
It's hard to bring in transplants to the community and expect them to bear the weather conditions, some of the cultural problems, and all of those things, and persist. It's probably easier to invest in the people who are already here.
CATHY WURZER: Markus, I wish I had more time with you. You're a really interesting individual. Thank you for the conversation today.
MARKUS FLYNN: Well, thank you.
CATHY WURZER: We've been talking to Markus Flynn. He's the executive director of Black Men Teach. That's a local organization with a mission to recruit, prepare, place, and retain Black male teachers in elementary schools. He is a former teacher himself.
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