The 2023 Bush Fellows are here. Listen to one who is diving into criminal justice storytelling
On Tuesday morning the Bush Foundation announced its 2023 Bush Fellows.
They are 24 community leaders from Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota and 23 Native nations eligible to receive a flexible grant up to $100,000 to pursue education.
The fellowship recognizes them for their community involvement and innovation: Their work stands to have a profound ripple effect across the region in the areas of mental health, community storytelling, food accessibility and much more.
Anyone in the area 24 and older “who has a track record of leading change and seeks to build the ability to have an even greater impact” can apply, the Foundation said in a release.
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“The Foundation works through open grantmaking programs to develop, test and spread great ideas to make our region better, and to inspire, equip and connect people to lead change effectively,” it said.
The two dozen recipients were selected from nearly 600 applicants in the region.
MPR News guest host Emily Bright spoke with just one: Nadine Graves.
Nadine Graves has been a Hennepin County Public Defender and is deputy director of Community Legal Services at the Legal Rights Center.
Bush Foundation
She’s been a Hennepin County Public Defender and is deputy director of Community Legal Services at the Legal Rights Center. She is especially passionate about using storytelling to shift concepts of justice.
Graves’ own trauma-filled youth led to a criminal record at a young age.
Now, she’s interested in undoing the dehumanization she felt from the criminal justice system.
Use the audio player above to listen to the full conversation.
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We attempt to make transcripts for Minnesota Now available the next business day after a broadcast. When ready they will appear here.
Audio transcript
INTERVIEWER: Lots of big announcements have been coming out today, and here's one. This morning, the Bush Foundation announced its 2023 Bush Fellows. These are 24 community leaders from Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, and 23 Native nations who will be eligible to receive a flexible grant of up to $100,000 to pursue education.
Their work stands to have a profound ripple effect across the region in the areas of mental health, community storytelling, food accessibility, and much more. So congratulations to all of the fellows. Today, we'll be speaking with just one. Her name is Nadine Graves.
She's been a Hennepin County Public Defender and is Deputy Director of Community Legal Services at the Legal Rights Center. And she is especially passionate about using storytelling to shift concepts of justice. Her own trauma filled youth led to a criminal record at a young age.
Well now, she's interested in undoing the dehumanization that she and others feel from the criminal justice system. She's here with us now. So, Nadine, welcome to Minnesota Now and congratulations on the fellowship.
NADINE GRAVES: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
INTERVIEWER: It is such a long application process to become a Bush Fellow. What inspired you to go for it?
NADINE GRAVES: I've been encouraged to apply. First, it was a 2018 Bush fellow Amanda Lagrange who encouraged me to apply. She asked me in 2018, but I didn't feel like the timing was right.
She followed up again in 2022. And, given the accolades I had received around that time, and now also being in a traditional leadership role, I felt more comfortable in applying. So once I said "yes," I connected with additional Bush Fellows, former fellows, 2011 Emily Baxter and 2018 Linda Anderson who helped me and encouraged me throughout the whole process.
INTERVIEWER: That must be so helpful to have people who've gone through the process talk you through it.
NADINE GRAVES: Absolutely.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, you had a criminal record at a young age. Did that affect your interest in the law?
NADINE GRAVES: No. In fact, I think that's what pushed me into the law. I recognize what it felt like to have your dream deferred. My mom is a nurse, and my goal was to become a nurse.
But because of my criminal record, I was hindered from even being-- I was a nursing assistant at the time, so I was hindered from being able to work in the field. And so I ended up leaving Minnesota to be able to have access to other opportunities where I could still work as a nursing assistant somewhere else. I went to college and studied criminal justice and sociology.
INTERVIEWER: OK. You stress the importance of listening and storytelling in the criminal justice process. Can you tell me a story you've heard during your career that was especially impactful to you?
NADINE GRAVES: Wow. Yeah, all of them. I hold as many stories. I think the one that stands out the most would probably be I had a client who I represented, and we took the case to trial. And after the fact, we did not prevail at trial, and he got a really harsh sentence.
And I didn't think the sentence was adequate to what he was charged of and ultimately convicted of. And his response to me was, I was an Army vet. I fought for this country, and this is how they treat me.
And I didn't take the time to pull out that story, because, oftentimes, we have such high case loads that as a public defender, you're not able to deep dive into those stories. Had I known, I probably would have presented that more in some way through my defense. But just knowing that he didn't feel seen, or he didn't feel heard, or he wouldn't feel supported by his country, whom he fought for and felt like they gave him a brunt of it with their sentencing-- those stories like that stay with me.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So you want to use this fellowship to pursue higher education in social impact storytelling. What will that look like for you?
NADINE GRAVES: There's a program that it helps. I think I always look back and wish that I would have did some sort of journalism. I think as attorneys, we're supposed to be strong communicators and being able to write out good narratives to bring your clients' stories to life.
And so I believe that getting that certificate gives me that foundational training that I don't have as far as when it comes to interviewing skills. I already do it in my capacity as a lawyer and through a podcast that I have. But I think you can always build on those skills. And so I'm hopeful that program will be able to do that for me.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Well, I want to get to that podcast in just a sec, but here's kind of a big arching question-- tell me how you want to approach criminal justice differently.
NADINE GRAVES: I would like to see us do other alternatives to incarceration. I want to see the use of restorative justice practices implemented more. And then through restorative justice, I think people have the opportunity to tell their stories. There's space for building community where our traditional legal system does not offer that.
It's very adversarial, whereas in a restorative practice, you use circles, you're facing each other, you're giving each other space to talk and hear out what the person says before anyone can respond. And I think if we allow people to create those relationships, we can actually repair harm, whereas the current system does not allow us to do that at all.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Well, speaking of creating space to listen, let's get to that podcast. It's called The Waiting Room, right?
NADINE GRAVES: Yes, that's correct.
INTERVIEWER: Tell me about that and why you started it.
NADINE GRAVES: That was birthed out of me being in a waiting room. As an attorney, there's a long line of women, most of them African-American, waiting to visit their loved ones. And I overheard one of the ladies saying, I can't wait until my loved one gets sentenced.
And I paused and said, why would you want that? And she's like, well, at least when he goes to prison, we can hug, we can talk, or we can hold hands for a moment. Here, it's all through plexiglass.
And it just dawned on me that the greater public and community fails to recognize that, yes, you may send this individual away for a crime that they committed, but they have family members that are attached to them that are impacted as well. And so I wanted to expose the invisible impact of our criminal legal system and just mass incarceration as a whole, because these people that we send away, they have children are in our schools.
We have loved ones that you work with, colleagues that you interact with. All of us have in some way been impacted by the legal system. And I just wanted to have a space to amplify the stories of those who have been impacted by justice, freedom, and those professionals that are helping people in the waiting room.
INTERVIEWER: The more I hear about it, the more I just am in love with the title that you chose and the concept.
NADINE GRAVES: Thank you.
INTERVIEWER: I would love to hear an interesting story or two that you've heard on your podcast.
NADINE GRAVES: There was a young lady that was on my podcast who talked about you know where the prisons are. You know where all of these people are. But again, like I said, and that's where I get this language from-- but in the classroom, this child that may be acting up and you're wondering what's wrong with them, the proper question is not "what's wrong with them" the proper question, as Oprah has phrased in her recent book, is "what happened to them?"
Oftentimes, people that you find in the legal system, they are suffering trauma. They've had extreme poverty. They had so many obstacles that they've had to endure and haven't had the resources, like this beautiful fellowship is providing me, or like I've been blessed throughout my life to have people come in alongside me, and encourage me, and invest in me to get me to where I'm at. And so those stories are the types that I want people to hear and recognize. Like, you can support-- you can create another me by replicating the same model that has happened in my life that got me to where I'm at.
INTERVIEWER: So ask questions and listen first.
NADINE GRAVES: Absolutely.
INTERVIEWER: Any other stories that you carry with you from that podcast? Or we should just listen to it.
NADINE GRAVES: Yeah, absolutely. Tune in. That would be great.
INTERVIEWER: Well, Nadine, congratulations on the Bush Fellowship. And I wish you best of luck with your studies and your future endeavors.
NADINE GRAVES: Absolutely. Thank you so much. It's been an honor. My heart is really full, and I'm just grateful that they see in me what so many people have been trying to tell me over these years.
INTERVIEWER: Absolutely. Well, thank you and take care.
NADINE GRAVES: Thank you.
INTERVIEWER: Nadine Graves is one of the 24 Bush Fellows whose names were announced today.
Their work stands to have a profound ripple effect across the region in the areas of mental health, community storytelling, food accessibility, and much more. So congratulations to all of the fellows. Today, we'll be speaking with just one. Her name is Nadine Graves.
She's been a Hennepin County Public Defender and is Deputy Director of Community Legal Services at the Legal Rights Center. And she is especially passionate about using storytelling to shift concepts of justice. Her own trauma filled youth led to a criminal record at a young age.
Well now, she's interested in undoing the dehumanization that she and others feel from the criminal justice system. She's here with us now. So, Nadine, welcome to Minnesota Now and congratulations on the fellowship.
NADINE GRAVES: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
INTERVIEWER: It is such a long application process to become a Bush Fellow. What inspired you to go for it?
NADINE GRAVES: I've been encouraged to apply. First, it was a 2018 Bush fellow Amanda Lagrange who encouraged me to apply. She asked me in 2018, but I didn't feel like the timing was right.
She followed up again in 2022. And, given the accolades I had received around that time, and now also being in a traditional leadership role, I felt more comfortable in applying. So once I said "yes," I connected with additional Bush Fellows, former fellows, 2011 Emily Baxter and 2018 Linda Anderson who helped me and encouraged me throughout the whole process.
INTERVIEWER: That must be so helpful to have people who've gone through the process talk you through it.
NADINE GRAVES: Absolutely.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, you had a criminal record at a young age. Did that affect your interest in the law?
NADINE GRAVES: No. In fact, I think that's what pushed me into the law. I recognize what it felt like to have your dream deferred. My mom is a nurse, and my goal was to become a nurse.
But because of my criminal record, I was hindered from even being-- I was a nursing assistant at the time, so I was hindered from being able to work in the field. And so I ended up leaving Minnesota to be able to have access to other opportunities where I could still work as a nursing assistant somewhere else. I went to college and studied criminal justice and sociology.
INTERVIEWER: OK. You stress the importance of listening and storytelling in the criminal justice process. Can you tell me a story you've heard during your career that was especially impactful to you?
NADINE GRAVES: Wow. Yeah, all of them. I hold as many stories. I think the one that stands out the most would probably be I had a client who I represented, and we took the case to trial. And after the fact, we did not prevail at trial, and he got a really harsh sentence.
And I didn't think the sentence was adequate to what he was charged of and ultimately convicted of. And his response to me was, I was an Army vet. I fought for this country, and this is how they treat me.
And I didn't take the time to pull out that story, because, oftentimes, we have such high case loads that as a public defender, you're not able to deep dive into those stories. Had I known, I probably would have presented that more in some way through my defense. But just knowing that he didn't feel seen, or he didn't feel heard, or he wouldn't feel supported by his country, whom he fought for and felt like they gave him a brunt of it with their sentencing-- those stories like that stay with me.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So you want to use this fellowship to pursue higher education in social impact storytelling. What will that look like for you?
NADINE GRAVES: There's a program that it helps. I think I always look back and wish that I would have did some sort of journalism. I think as attorneys, we're supposed to be strong communicators and being able to write out good narratives to bring your clients' stories to life.
And so I believe that getting that certificate gives me that foundational training that I don't have as far as when it comes to interviewing skills. I already do it in my capacity as a lawyer and through a podcast that I have. But I think you can always build on those skills. And so I'm hopeful that program will be able to do that for me.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Well, I want to get to that podcast in just a sec, but here's kind of a big arching question-- tell me how you want to approach criminal justice differently.
NADINE GRAVES: I would like to see us do other alternatives to incarceration. I want to see the use of restorative justice practices implemented more. And then through restorative justice, I think people have the opportunity to tell their stories. There's space for building community where our traditional legal system does not offer that.
It's very adversarial, whereas in a restorative practice, you use circles, you're facing each other, you're giving each other space to talk and hear out what the person says before anyone can respond. And I think if we allow people to create those relationships, we can actually repair harm, whereas the current system does not allow us to do that at all.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Well, speaking of creating space to listen, let's get to that podcast. It's called The Waiting Room, right?
NADINE GRAVES: Yes, that's correct.
INTERVIEWER: Tell me about that and why you started it.
NADINE GRAVES: That was birthed out of me being in a waiting room. As an attorney, there's a long line of women, most of them African-American, waiting to visit their loved ones. And I overheard one of the ladies saying, I can't wait until my loved one gets sentenced.
And I paused and said, why would you want that? And she's like, well, at least when he goes to prison, we can hug, we can talk, or we can hold hands for a moment. Here, it's all through plexiglass.
And it just dawned on me that the greater public and community fails to recognize that, yes, you may send this individual away for a crime that they committed, but they have family members that are attached to them that are impacted as well. And so I wanted to expose the invisible impact of our criminal legal system and just mass incarceration as a whole, because these people that we send away, they have children are in our schools.
We have loved ones that you work with, colleagues that you interact with. All of us have in some way been impacted by the legal system. And I just wanted to have a space to amplify the stories of those who have been impacted by justice, freedom, and those professionals that are helping people in the waiting room.
INTERVIEWER: The more I hear about it, the more I just am in love with the title that you chose and the concept.
NADINE GRAVES: Thank you.
INTERVIEWER: I would love to hear an interesting story or two that you've heard on your podcast.
NADINE GRAVES: There was a young lady that was on my podcast who talked about you know where the prisons are. You know where all of these people are. But again, like I said, and that's where I get this language from-- but in the classroom, this child that may be acting up and you're wondering what's wrong with them, the proper question is not "what's wrong with them" the proper question, as Oprah has phrased in her recent book, is "what happened to them?"
Oftentimes, people that you find in the legal system, they are suffering trauma. They've had extreme poverty. They had so many obstacles that they've had to endure and haven't had the resources, like this beautiful fellowship is providing me, or like I've been blessed throughout my life to have people come in alongside me, and encourage me, and invest in me to get me to where I'm at. And so those stories are the types that I want people to hear and recognize. Like, you can support-- you can create another me by replicating the same model that has happened in my life that got me to where I'm at.
INTERVIEWER: So ask questions and listen first.
NADINE GRAVES: Absolutely.
INTERVIEWER: Any other stories that you carry with you from that podcast? Or we should just listen to it.
NADINE GRAVES: Yeah, absolutely. Tune in. That would be great.
INTERVIEWER: Well, Nadine, congratulations on the Bush Fellowship. And I wish you best of luck with your studies and your future endeavors.
NADINE GRAVES: Absolutely. Thank you so much. It's been an honor. My heart is really full, and I'm just grateful that they see in me what so many people have been trying to tell me over these years.
INTERVIEWER: Absolutely. Well, thank you and take care.
NADINE GRAVES: Thank you.
INTERVIEWER: Nadine Graves is one of the 24 Bush Fellows whose names were announced today.
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